sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget

[ataubin]

At the Community Council Meeting on 10 November at St Faith's we were told Southwark has to cut 80 million from its budget. But where? What if we make East Dulwich a trial, a model for community (tiny) action that saves mega bucks? If every one sweeps the leaves and clears the ice and snow from the 8 metres in front of their property the council would save up to 10 million pounds. Yes, you read that correctly: 10 million if everyone did it. Seems a small action to me to save a lot of money. In an entire year it might take one hour? two?. No leaf blowers, no trucks. 10 million saved.

I also think alot of money could be saved in a revamp of the Parking Authority (see my gripe about a ticket for a questionable offence): Pay and display and the High Street only. And what about a complete revamp of Building and Development? There must be millions to be saved, standards to be raised and loads of world quality apprentices to train.

Comments?

What if we went one further and made East Dulwich a Transition Town?

[hislordship]

They appear to be saving money already by not collecting my recycling - it's almost 3 weeks since they last visited.

[James Barber]

Hi hislordship,

If you let me know the details I'll happilly chase for you.

[Tarot]

Good news about the Chandlers isnt it James.?(tu)

[sophiesofa]

Where did you get the "up to 10 million" figure from, was it from the meeting? I persnaly can't see it taking off enough and there would need to be a shed load of money spent to advertise this so people knew they had to. Also, the road sweepers would lose their jobs :(

I am happy with the parking we have at the moment as I think pay and display would clog up the side roads even more and I don't want residents parking but that's just me.

Those are of course just my views and I do realise that the money needs to be cut somewhere, I just don't know where.

My boyfriend works for Southwark building services and his job is most certainly under threat, if not a substantial pay cut and we would then struggle to pay our mortgage.

I have no answers or solutions to offer so in a way my post is a bit pointless - sorry!

[EDmummy]

Great idea and no problem doing it but my street has quite a lot of older people living on it. Would they be expected to clear up? If they don't then how will it work with half the street clear and the rest not?

Already we have kind residents ignoring fallen fruit littering the front of their house and the road for the entire late summer/autumn and the stench is horrific. The residents (two young couples) have not cleared up and neither have the council.

I would definitely prefer the council to save money on these types of services rather than on essential social services but there are definitely some holes in the idea.

[kford]

In Germany and parts of the US and Canada you have to clear the path in front of your house of snow by law.

[James Barber]

The government has issued a Snow Code about clearing snow from pavements:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_191868

[PeckhamRose]

We need to be told how to do everything!

Is there a code on how to sweep leaves?

I had a reply from the council about why they're using petrol driven hand held leaf blowers. Basically, it is to save money because lots of humans using brooms would cost them more.

So that's okay then.

[Narnia]

So I presume more people would be made unemployed by this thus money would have to be spent supporting them and their families? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited to add that of course this would create jobs so people could monitor the unemployed and make sure they are not claiming benefits they shouldn't be.

[James Barber]

Hi PeckhamRose,

The Snow code highlights good practice to clear snow from pavements and paths such that you can avoid being successfully sued - which is a commonly given reason for people saying why they haven't cleared the pavement outside their home.

Hi Narnia,

Their will never be enough council employees to clear all pavements outside homes - hundreds of kilometres of pavements.

But if residents clear the pavement outside their home the effects of the snow would be dramatically reduced. This really helps reduce peoples isolation.

[kford]

How sad - the sooner no-win-no-fee lawyers are outlawed, the better.

[sedgewick]

ataubin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> At the Community Council Meeting on 10 November at

> St Faith's we were told Southwark has to cut 80

> million from its budget. But where? What if we

> make East Dulwich a trial, a model for community

> (tiny) action that saves mega bucks? If every one

> sweeps the leaves and clears the ice and snow from

> the 8 metres in front of their property the

> council would save up to 10 million pounds. Yes,

> you read that correctly: 10 million if everyone

> did it. Seems a small action to me to save a lot

> of money. In an entire year it might take one

> hour? two?. No leaf blowers, no trucks. 10

> million saved.

> I also think alot of money could be saved in a

> revamp of the Parking Authority (see my gripe

> about a ticket for a questionable offence): Pay

> and display and the High Street only. And what

> about a complete revamp of Building and

> Development? There must be millions to be saved,

> standards to be raised and loads of world quality

> apprentices to train.

> Comments?

> What if we went one further and made East Dulwich

> a Transition Town?

Considering the amount of council tax we pay I personally wont be sweeping any leaves or clearing ice from the streets or taking part in any other activity that is supposedly covered by my paying of council tax.

[Otto]

Hurrah for clearing snow - yes - as an ex-New Englander it is something I've always done. The advantage to people doing it themselves is it can often be addressed at the time it is easiest to move it - just after it falls, and, before it is packed down with foot traffic. Everyone would voluntarily help the elderly with clearance, and, enterprising young children would often make a bit of pocket money from other houses who chose to hire someone...and, nostalgically, there was a warm bit of neighborhood camaraderie in the morning after a snowfall...

[peterstorm1985]

Narnia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So I presume more people would be made unemployed

> by this thus money would have to be spent

> supporting them and their families? Correct me if

> I'm wrong.

>

> Edited to add that of course this would create

> jobs so people could monitor the unemployed and

> make sure they are not claiming benefits they

> shouldn't be.

Absolutely agree Narnia. Road sweeping is a very low paid job so the saving to the taxpayer in overall cost between someone working or not working (they are unlikely to find work in the private sector at present) is insignificant so lets keep them in work.

Make cuts of middle or high earners in council services, not at the bottom

[AcedOut]

How far do we go with this? Self-policing? That would save billions!

[Dorothy]

The council did not clear the snow on our pavement at all last year. Not once.

[Marmora Man]

Considering the amount of council tax we pay I personally wont be sweeping any leaves or clearing ice from the streets or taking part in any other activity that is supposedly covered by my paying of council tax

But if we all did our bit in sweeping leaves, clearing snow etc that can be regarded as a physical, non financial, contribution to the local area that avoids an increase in local taxes. As an added benefit we might get to know our neighbours, help out th elderly who were unable to sweep / clear and perhaps as an added bonus everyone would take a little more civic pride intheir immediate vicinity.

Leaving the proverbial / anecdotal "them" to do it is, to my mind, a deriliction of public duty - regardless of the level of council tax.

[Huguenot]

Unemployment Benefit claimants?

[computedshorty]

My neighbour has a public tree growing in the pavement, she always sweeps the leaves from her frontage onto mine, not trying to collect them for disposal, she does the same with the snow.

When a bus passes the leaves get spread again, and the snow that gets piled into the curb by her gets melted and spewed over my frontage.

Nice lady has a face front and back.

[The Minkey]

The sort community-minded people who would clear up their own snow/leaves etc most probably already do so. Excluding those who are unable to wield a shovel, the rest would appear to prefer to run the risk of breaking an arm/leg during the daily slip-slide to and from the house to spending a little time dealing with it themselves BECAUSE that's what they pay their Council Tax for. Crazy but true, folks.

[v_the_gelfling]

A lot of people on my street already sweep leaves from outside their house, we do it from ours once a week. I don't recall the council shifting any of the snow from our pavements last year though, the roads, yes but pavements no. So not really sure what's being gained out of 'everybody' doing it..

[louisiana]

I don't think the council ever sweeps leaves or clears snow in this road (though we do get the gritter lorries when appropriate). Even our pavements are looking more than a little ropey after endless utilities digging over the last quarter century filled with random tarmac.

I'm in favour of people clearing their own leaves and snow.

Are we going to be issued with a community broom for each street? :)

Many flat-dwellers don't have the heavy-duty outdoor variety.

[RosieH]

Snap.

I don't mean to be unhelpful but I own neither broom nor shovel (dustpan and brush aside). Having traversed the mulchy leaves in frippantly high heels, I know this is a task that needs doing, but I'm afraid my tools are not fit for purpose.

[Applespider]

I'm a flat dweller and since our communal garden has a large tree, we bought (as a group) a relatively cheap brush/rake to use on both the 'garden' and the pavement. A brush is hardly expensive (it's not like insisting on a large powered leafblower) and snow shovels can be had for a few pounds. You'd get both brush and shovel for well under ?10

One thing on snow-clearing though is what happens with grit. My family still live in Scotland where there are grit 'skips' every few hundred metres and it's quite common for people to clear the pavement in front of their homes of snow. The council fill the grit bins and then residents grab a bucket (also fairly cheap) to carry some home for the pavement and drive. Do we have grit bins down here?