Royal Mail Sorting Office Closure Meeting..

[hamsandwich]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> See my posts above - our next port of call needs

> to be OfCom - and I believe that a complaint from

> Councillors in the two wards mainly affected

> (Dulwich Hill and Goose Green) - possibly

> supported by our MP, is appropriate, as this is a

> failure impacting an entire community, rather than

> just individuals. Royal Mail has an implicit

> contract (it may even be explicit) to offer postal

> deliveries to residential addresses on 6 working

> days, and to deliver first class mail within a day

> of posting. It is clearly, and consistently,

> failing on that. Additionally regular one hour

> waits to collect undelivered mail (outside times

> of high impact, such as Christmas) cannot be

> considered acceptable. I would be happy for Royal

> Mail to be instructed to remedy this situation,

> and to be fined the value of any profit they have

> made from the sale of Sylvester Road, as an

> encouragement not to act so stupidly again.

Thanks for the info. There's a Labour Councillor meeting on 4th October. I'll be attending, so I'll see if I can bring it up then.

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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I would be happy for Royal

> Mail to be instructed to remedy this situation,

> and to be fined the value of any profit they have

> made from the sale of Sylvester Road, as an

> encouragement not to act so stupidly again.

I would be happy for Royal Mail to be unprivatised. If that is a word.

[intexasatthe moment]

Penguin from ( admittedly not v determined ) attempts to complain on line it seems that a complaint has to be made in the first instance to Royal Mail .Other than not reiving any post for many days I can't really prove that anything has been delayed ,I'm not actually expecting anything .

So I guess I can't complain .

[Penguin68]

attempts to complain on line it seems that a complaint has to be made in the first instance to Royal Mail

I believe that is correct, but I also believe that sufficient complaints/ attempts to complain have been made to Royal Mail, together with attempts by our MP to stop this initial move happening (warning of problems) for at least the issue to be raised with Ofcom. An entire community is being poorly served. I know that, in the old days, I (my household) received at least one and often more than one item of mail every day - when I don't receive mail I can be pretty sure that either there has been no postman passing my house, or that the mail is not being sorted. I can't (of course) prove a negative, but when I get 10 or more items delivered together (posted, where that is marked, over a large number of days) after an absence of any deliveries for 2 or 3 days, I can reasonably assume a failure either of sorting or delivery. Neither should be failing.

[singalto]

Bizarrely I had 2 postal deliveries today!

[Penguin68]

I would be happy for Royal Mail to be unprivatised. If that is a word.

This is not a panacea. I worked for the nationalised Post Office (in the Telecommunications Division, before BT was privatised) - and poor management decisions were by no means unusual, exacerbated by political interference. The Post Office was a government cash-cow - with revenues being syphoned off for Government Expenditure, hence the complete lack of investment in the Telecomms business. In the 10 years after BT privatising ?20bn was invested in the network (and real charges dropped for customers). Before that BT had had to 'lend' the government ?200m a year from its revenues. BT turned itself around by putting customer satisfaction as its chief performance measure when it came to remuneration target setting. I cannot remember if I have ever been asked my opinion of customer service delivery by the Royal Mail - can anyone? If you don't, or won't, listen to your customers then, private or public, you are likely to fail. And rightly so. The problem is that a failing Royal Mail still has no competitor for domestic postal (letter) services.

[Sue]

I worked for the Post Office, and subsequently Royal Mail, from the late seventies to the early nineties, ie long before privatisation. At one time I was a manager in their Market Research department.

I can assure you that customer satisfaction was taken very seriously.

More recently, Royal Mail has set up a system whereby "fake" but apparently genuine letters and packets are tracked. They are posted and received by people in various parts of the country, to check on delivery times etc..

God knows what the results are like in this area at the moment !!!!

I did this for a time, but it got to be too much of a hassle (The volunteers were paid in stamps. I have enough stamps to last many years, as I rarely use them except at Christmas :)) )

It is true that the Post Office had to pay money to the government. I can't now remember the exact details, but I do remember that despite this millstone round its neck, it generally did very well.

But then, it didn't have to satisfy shareholders by selling off its assets, did it?

ETA: And I can't speak for BT, but in my experience the Royal Mail managers who were making policy and strategic decisions at Headquarters level were generally very good indeed. At local level the management was not necessarily always so good, but I'm sure that is the same in any organisation.

[Penguin68]

I can assure you that customer satisfaction was taken very seriously.

At one time BT (through its Telcare system) was contacting about 1% of customers monthly who had any transactions (fault report, order etc.) with BT to track customer QoS response. That was a huge piece of continuous research (and I too worked in MR, for BT, at the time). Certainly 'mystery shopping' of transactions would be useful, but quite unlikely to pick up the problems we have in SE22. I would guess close to 100% of Sylvester road customers have had at least one missed delivery since mid July - and many probably 2-3 a week. As for timely delivery...! That sort of failure will not be picked up on any sample survey or mystery shop. Neither will the problems at 1 pick-up point in a sorting office. Mystery shopping does not equate to customer opinion gathering.

And I have to say that the problems we face at the moment are exceptional. I doubt if any current survey is being designed to pick up the levels of failure we are experiencing. As far as I know there was no attempt to determine customer needs before the office was closed, indeed every attempt to ignore feedback being offered by e.g. our MP. And certainly no attempt to gauge customer experience now. At least none that I have seen. Has any reader of this forum been approached by a researcher on behalf of Royal Mail about this change? I would be happy to stand corrected...

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Has any reader of this forum been approached by a

> researcher on behalf of Royal Mail about this

> change? I would be happy to stand corrected...

But that's not how things work now, is it? My comments were mainly because you were talking about the situation prior to privatisation.

There was no consultation with customers about this change beforehand, so it's hardly likely that customers are going to be consulted afterwards.

Given that, Royal Mail "researchers" are not going to approach customers individually about service changes in one area.

Going down the routes already suggested seems to me the only viable route to get any change implemented.

ETA: But btw, the "mystery shopping" as you describe it should precisely be picking up problems in SE22, because items posted from different parts of the country and delivered to SE22 postcodes are likely being delayed.

I don't know exactly how the data is analysed, but if it was not picking up delivery delays then there would be little point in doing it.

[Penguin68]

I doubt very much whether the sample size will be sufficient to identify delivery problems in just one postcode area. I am happy to stand corrected. You will know, although I understand you may not be able to tell me, but is the sample taken sufficient to be statistically significant at the SE22 level? And is it reported in that way, to that level of detail?

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> I doubt very much whether the sample size will be

> sufficient to identify delivery problems in just

> one postcode area. I am happy to stand corrected.

> You will know, although I understand you may not

> be able to tell me, but is the sample taken

> sufficient to be statistically significant at the

> SE22 level? And is it reported in that way, to

> that level of detail?

It is a long time since I worked for Royal Mail, and even longer since I had anything directly to do with their Market Research.

I'm afraid I have no idea either how large a sample is taken from each postcode area (though there were others apart from me doing it in this area relatively recently) nor whether it is analysed down to SE22, SE23 etc or whether some postcode areas are combined. All I did as regards this survey was post items and receive items posted from people like me elsewhere in the UK.

You would need to ask Royal Mail, and I guess they would be obliged to tell you.

I can't see much point in doing it unless they were able to get statistically significant results over a reasonably small area.

However in the present case, it must be quite clear to them that there are issues in SE22 irrespective of the results of that delivery research! Though I have no idea how much liaison there is between various departments these days.

ETA: In case of misunderstanding, the research I was involved in recently had nothing directly to do with me apart from that I volunteered to do it. That was nothing to do with my having once worked for Royal Mail - any member of the public could apply. All I did was post stuff and receive stuff and record times etc..

I am no longer privy to what goes on in their Market Research department, and in my day so far as I recall this research using volunteers was not carried out.

[Nigello]

A replacement bank card has not arrived but the PIN did. Post arrives at odd times of the day. Is this the new normal?

[Woody16]

We haven?t had any post at all since Monday and I?m still waiting for a parcel that was sent first class on the 7th September.

[uncleglen]

Sue Wrote:

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> I came downstairs today to find a postie I've

> never seen before unsuccessfully attempting to jam

> a very large packet through my quite small letter

> box.

>

> I opened the door to get it, and he handed me the

> packet and a couple of other letters.

>

> Around ten minutes later, he rang the bell and

> handed me another smaller packet (this one would

> have easily fitted through the letter box) and two

> more letters. He looked through his bundle and

> went off.

>

> Around another ten minutes later, I found yet

> another letter on my doormat, which presumably he

> had returned to deliver.

>

> No wonder deliveries are all over the place.

>

> One letter was time-critical, from a bank relating

> to a switch of accounts. It was apparently posted

> nine days ago, and the switch took place yesterday

> so most of the information contained in the letter

> was completely useless to me.

>

> GRRRRRRRRRR.

>

> ETA: Surely it is common sense, even if you are a

> casual and have had no or little training, to

> bundle up items for the same house before you

> leave the delivery office? Or at least put them in

> house order?!

I did a double-take here- Exactly the same thing happened at my house on Monday

[hamsandwich]

Woody16 Wrote:

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> We haven?t had any post at all since Monday and

> I?m still waiting for a parcel that was sent first

> class on the 7th September.

Yup. This is almost exactly my experience. I'm going to carry on spamming Royal Mail until I get an answer. Would recommend everyone doing the same.

This is the contact form: https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/webforms/contact/c/310

Here is the number: 03457 740 740

To get the contact form you need to click complaints -> I'd like to make a complaint -> "Still Need Help?" and it's there.

[Sue]

Nigello Wrote:

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> A replacement bank card has not arrived but the

> PIN did. Post arrives at odd times of the day. Is

> this the new normal?

In my neck of the woods, post has been arriving at odd times of the day for months, if not years!

ETA: But for security reasons, you wouldn't expect the PIN to arrive at the same time as the bank card, would you?

[alex_b]

DulwichSal Wrote:

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>

> I have written twice to Helen Hayes... no reply as

> yet

She probably hasn?t received them yet ;)

[se22]

I am closely related to a SE22 postie who doesn't want to er Post on here.

Please spare a thought for the posties. They are working incredibly hard in a very stressful situation trying to get to grips with a new delivery method which has made their job more difficult. From tonight temporary night time sorting is being introduced which should mean your postie will spend less time in the office sorting mail and more time actually delivering it.

Nationally from next month posties working hours are being reduced from 40 hours per week to 39. I wonder how this will affect the service!

[intexasatthe moment]

Interesting and helpful ,thank you se22.

FWIW I think there is general sympathy and a recognition of increased work load for those delivering mail and other workers caught up in this mess .

[swinds82]

Helen Hayes has written to Royal Mail

Fingers crossed for a response!

DulwichSal Wrote:

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> Having taken 35 mins to get here now been stood in

> a queue for another 35 mins and I got at least

> another 30 mins to wait. A total joke. It?s not

> even Christmas. I will be getting it Re delivered

> in future but I had to pick this up as it is

> finally a new bank card from having been scammed

> through the British airways data theft.

>

> I have written twice to Helen Hayes... no reply as

> yet

[kiera]

There's a photo of a queue outside the Highshore Rd sorting office in this week's Southwark News, plus a piece written by Helen Hayes, from which I gather that she has not yet received a reply from Royal Mail's CEO. On reading more on the subject, I've learned that CEO Moya Greene retired this month - so that's probably why she's not replied.

The new CEO lives in Switzerland and Royal Mail paid almost ?6 million to get him. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/19/majority-of-investors-reject-pay-deal-for-royal-mails-chief-executive

[KidKruger]

I fully appreciate that any postie affected by recent changes locally must be under stress and heavy workload, changes to logistics of where to turn up for sorting and set-off of delivery - and probably concerns about the future cut-backs and what it means for their job security.

I would still ask, however, that with the sorting office in SE22 now closed, posties spare a thought as they push the 'we knocked but no answer' red slips through resident's letter boxes to save themselves a few seconds, for the resident who may now have to commit several hours trying to retrieve their package through multiple trips / extensive queues up at Highshore PO.

[Elphinstone's Army]

A few years ago, Nationwide sent me a new card and separate envelope with new pin : both went in the postman's pocket, as did ?500 with which I had opened the account, drawn from the local Coop atm, at the end of the road.

I then went though such a rigmarole with NW who suggested someone in my house (of adult children) had taken it.

They eventually reimbursed the full amount but I had to go into battle.

This did not happen here I hasten to add. I mention this as an alert.

Sue Wrote:

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> Nigello Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > A replacement bank card has not arrived but the

> > PIN did. Post arrives at odd times of the day.

> Is

> > this the new normal?

>

>

> In my neck of the woods, post has been arriving at

> odd times of the day for months, if not years!

>

> ETA: But for security reasons, you wouldn't expect

> the PIN to arrive at the same time as the bank

> card, would you?

[jimbo1964]

I wrote to Helen Hayes and Harriet Harman a week ago. No response or acknowledgement from either. It is Labour conference week so they may be extra busy. But I hope they get on with something soon.

alex_b Wrote:

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> DulwichSal Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > I have written twice to Helen Hayes... no reply

> as

> > yet

>

> She probably hasn?t received them yet ;)

[uncleglen]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> I fully appreciate that any postie affected by

> recent changes locally must be under stress and

> heavy workload, changes to logistics of where to

> turn up for sorting and set-off of delivery - and

> probably concerns about the future cut-backs and

> what it means for their job security.

>

> I would still ask, however, that with the sorting

> office in SE22 now closed, posties spare a thought

> as they push the 'we knocked but no answer' red

> slips through resident's letter boxes to save

> themselves a few seconds, for the resident who may

> now have to commit several hours trying to

> retrieve their package through multiple trips /

> extensive queues up at Highshore PO.

If EVERYONE requested a re-delivery......