8 June

[tomdhu]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> The Britain I know & am very comfortable with does

> not exist in NI.

Don't get too comfortable because the SNP have stoked up huge amount of animosity amongst the Scots working class (or non-working class)) against England in the last few years for their own political gain. Very sad really in my view as someone with Scottish interests.

[red devil]

Clangers unite, there's Moomins to fight!...

[rendelharris]

red devil Wrote:

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> Clangers unite, there's Moomins to fight!...

Stop your stirring, there's more that joins Moomins and Clangers than separates them, we just need mutual understanding.

[red devil]

Soupdragon Farage has tweeted that the Cabinet reshuffle will have a strong Remainer majority. I like it when he's not happy...

[Seabag]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Robert Harris (no relation, sadly) in today's

> Sunday Times sums things up rather well, I think:

>

> "How did a stable, prosperous parliamentary

> democracy, granted a unique set of favourable

> opt-outs with the largest trading bloc in the

> world, including on the single currency and

> travel, throw it all up in the air on the basis of

> a 52-48 yes/no vote in a referendum ? a margin not

> normally wide enough to change the constitution of

> the average golf club?

>

> "What arrogance of intellect, what frivolousness

> of character, led our leaders to take such a

> gamble? Why did the Tory party rush to choose such

> an ill-equipped successor? Why did that successor,

> a ?remainer? herself, not seek to bind up our

> divided nation rather than opt for the harshest of

> all Brexit positions? Why did she call an election

> after, rather than before, triggering article 50

> and so deny the country a final say on its

> destiny?"

They've (the Tory Party) continued to put party before people & country.

The whole thing is stupid, ill thought out and dividing the country.

It feels like Darth Vader has invaded us.

[edhistory]

Lots of unsubstantiated information above signifying nothing.

This is what counts:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61

[malumbu]

So the Chagossians can have a say too. Shame they don't have any representation, I'd probably prefer them to the DUP.

Where do the tax avoidance/ havens - Channel Islands and IoM fit in. And Gibralter?

[edhistory]

There are 21 references to the Isle of Man in the Legislation.

Gibraltar is at Schedule 6 of the Legislation.

Never trust a UK government web-site summarising the law. Especially not HMRC.

[keano77]

Loz Wrote:

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> Lets put this another way: what is the collective

> name for people from "Great Britain and Northern

> Ireland", then?

>

> Answer: British.

>

> And, as of 21 May 2002, you can add people from

> the following places as 'British':

>

> Anguilla

> Bermuda

> British Antarctic Territory

> British Indian Ocean Territory

> British Virgin Islands

> Cayman Islands

> Falkland Islands

> Gibraltar

> Montserrat

> Pitcairn Islands

> Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha

> South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

> Turks and Caicos Islands

>

> https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/br

> itish-citizenship

>

> https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/br

> itish-overseas-territories-citizen

Exactly Loz

These people are British Citizens, or have the right to British Citizenship, but are not necessarily British except in a loose collective term.

[Loz]

keano77 Wrote:

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>

> Exactly Loz

>

> These people are British Citizens, or have the

> right to British Citizenship, but are not

> necessarily British except in a loose collective

> term.

So they are British, but they are not British.

You are really tying yourself into a knot here. What exactly is your definition of 'British'?

And how would you apply that definition if someone from, say, Gibraltar moves to London? Or someone from Outer Mongolia emigrates to Birmingham. Or to Belfast for that matter.

[keano77]

Loz wrote

You are really tying yourself into a knot here. What exactly is your definition of 'British'?

Someone born in Great Britain

All the rest are Citizens. A Mongolian would be a Mongolian who has been granted British Citizenship

[Loz]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Loz wrote

>

> You are really tying yourself into a knot here.

> What exactly is your definition of 'British'?

>

> Someone born in Great Britain

>

> All the rest are Citizens. A Mongolian would be a

> Mongolian who has been granted British Citizenship

So you are saying Mo Farah is not British? Really? Are you sure you want to go to that place?

Oh, and Bradley Wiggins. And Justin Rose. And Chris Froome. And Cliff Richard. And Joanna Lumley. And Spike Milligan. And Freddie Mercury.

Not a British person amongst them?

[keano77]

British Citizens each and everyone of them

[Loz]

keano77 Wrote:

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> British Citizens each and everyone of them

But not British?

In other news, I hear UKIP are looking for a new leader.

[keano77]

British in the loose collective sense, yes of course.

Okay, let's look at a possible scenario. In the near future spacefarers will colonise the moon, Mars and other moons in our solar system. Children will be born on those satellites or planet. Now, through decent, adoption or any of the myriad other ways these children of British pioneering colonists will be able to claim British Citizenship.

Is Zigor from Mars British?

[steveo]

Christ on a bike

[Lordship 516]

Dodgy Brexit campaign money from the DUP ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/what-connects-brexit-the-dup-dark-money-and-a-saudi-prince-1.3083586

[Seabag]

steveo Wrote:

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> Christ on a bike

He's Galilean I think.

[Lordship 516]

steveo Wrote:

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> Christ on a bike

What happened to the donkey..?

[red devil]

Blessed are the ingenious...

[Lordship 516]

I think from all of what we have seen written here is that anyone who holds a United Kingdom passport

or even an indefinite leave to remain [entitled to apply for a UK passport] is 'British' if that is

the term that they choose to describe their status. Democracy & personal choice reign superior.

I have an Irish passport & a British passport [as a subject not citizen] but I would refer to myself as Irish

living comfortably & voluntarily in the UK.

I give way on my earlier point on what constitutes British but not what constitutes Britain. NI people are British but do not live in Britain.

[malumbu]

I quite like this publication which comes across reasonably objective

https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/uk-election-surprise-leaves-brexit-talks-uncertain/

Final line

So Britain is in a hole. And whilst it was David Cameron who carried out the early excavations, Theresa May has just made it a whole lot deeper.

[Cardelia]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> A) I very much doubt Corbyn would betray his

> principles, much as I'm sure the right, having

> seen their own leader totally kick the idea of any

> principle beyond staying in power into touch,

> would like to think all others would do the same,

What is Corbyn's principled viewpoint on Trident? And what's in the Labour manifesto?

What is Corbyn's principled viewpoint on Brexit? Which side did he campaign for?

I was really impressed with Corbyn's campaigning despite disagreeing with a large number of his proposals. But the idea that he won't betray his principles in order to get into power is wrong. Corbyn finally seems to have accepted that in order to act upon his principles, firstly he needs to be in a position of power to do so. And if he has to pledge to keep Trident in order to get into power, despite wanting to scrap the whole thing, then that's what he'll do. Even if it is through gritted teeth and with his fingers crossed.

[rendelharris]

Cardelia Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > A) I very much doubt Corbyn would betray his

> > principles, much as I'm sure the right, having

> > seen their own leader totally kick the idea of

> any

> > principle beyond staying in power into touch,

> > would like to think all others would do the

> same,

>

> What is Corbyn's principled viewpoint on Trident?

> And what's in the Labour manifesto?

>

> What is Corbyn's principled viewpoint on Brexit?

> Which side did he campaign for?

>

> I was really impressed with Corbyn's campaigning

> despite disagreeing with a large number of his

> proposals. But the idea that he won't betray his

> principles in order to get into power is wrong.

> Corbyn finally seems to have accepted that in

> order to act upon his principles, firstly he needs

> to be in a position of power to do so. And if he

> has to pledge to keep Trident in order to get into

> power, despite wanting to scrap the whole thing,

> then that's what he'll do. Even if it is through

> gritted teeth and with his fingers crossed.

Corbyn has agreed to renew Trident as that's what the Labour party conference voted for. Nothing to do with betraying his principles, it's accepting the democratic decision of his party. Similarly, with Brexit, whatever his principles, he's agreed to abide by the democratic choice of the people. Nice try, but you can't equate accepting a democratic vote, whether in the party or the country, with the sordid grubbing around and cosying up to a bunch of rightwing homophobic creationist terrorist-supporting whackadoodles to try to stay in power by any possible means in which Mrs.May is currently engaging.

[Alan Medic]

Didn't realise until now this petition was happening:

https://www.change.org/p/theresamayout-dupout-nearly-one-million-signatures-winston-queensspeech-postmanpratt1

Doubt it will achieve anything though.