Vote: What /Who will you be Voting for Election ?

[jaywalker]

But the issue is helicopter drop of what. If just cash in current circumstances it will be hoarded. So must be time-delimited spending coupons. This predicated on a collapse of both V and y following from the 'i'm a bloody difficult PM' comment; rather than a sustained increase in P (Lordship will have the most recent data).

[uncleglen]

you can't have social justice Lordship516 when there is so much antisocial behaviour- especially fraud- the extent of fraud just within the construction industry is phenomenal and sickening.

Every one of your 'crisis' points on the 29th April are down to overcrowding of this island.....A Russian I met (who is on the benefits fiddle big time incidentally) told me that the reason people flock here is because they feel 'safe'...i.e. they have children and will never be on the streets even if they deliberately do not pay their rent. Added to that the EU citizens who are feathering their nests back home at our expense, and are not ploughing their wages back into the UK economy, means we are doomed in the long run- thank goodness for massive rent increases because at least some of the money stays here.

We are being crapped upon from a great height and bleeding heart liberal attitudes from people who can afford to 'virtue signal' and try and make the pragmatic feel that they are 'racist' 'heartless' etc etc are totally responsible.

[Lordship 516]

jaywalker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But the issue is helicopter drop of what. If just

> cash in current circumstances it will be hoarded.

> So must be time-delimited spending coupons. This

> predicated on a collapse of both V and y following

> from the 'i'm a bloody difficult PM' comment;

> rather than a sustained increase in P (Lordship

> will have the most recent data).

You are spot on with the time-delimited spending coupons. This is termed 'stamped money' or Gesell money after a Swiss economist who proposed that distributed funds would be stamped each month for a fee if it wasn't used. It would be easier today just to issue debit cards that would discounted by a taxed amount each month - use it or lose it. The stamped amount would effectively add to the multiplier effect of the money. It could also be an interesting experiment in a Universal Wage for all to see how it might pan out for the future robot infested world. If coupled with some QE for public infrastructure it would stimulate the economy in a positive manner - Welcome back, Pozzo; the Chicago Boys exit stage right [with Osborne] - your time in the limelight is about too end.

I wish I could get the recent data - unfortunately refined data is over 6 months old before I can get my hands on it. I have some data for particular sectors but have to do with extrapolation & projections for much of my work. The current AD & GDP projections are very unstable & TM the PM is not helping one bit. Employment might be a bit steady for now but stocks are increasing to an unhealthy level, real incomes are diminishing - Say's Law is fragile - again we need to turn to JMK.

[Borky]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> you can't have social justice Lordship516 when

> there is so much antisocial behaviour- especially

> fraud- the extent of fraud just within the

> construction industry is phenomenal and sickening.

>

> Every one of your 'crisis' points on the 29th

> April are down to overcrowding of this

> island.....A Russian I met (who is on the benefits

> fiddle big time incidentally) told me that the

> reason people flock here is because they feel

> 'safe'...i.e. they have children and will never be

> on the streets even if they deliberately do not

> pay their rent. Added to that the EU citizens who

> are feathering their nests back home at our

> expense, and are not ploughing their wages back

> into the UK economy, means we are doomed in the

> long run- thank goodness for massive rent

> increases because at least some of the money stays

> here.

> We are being crapped upon from a great height and

> bleeding heart liberal attitudes from people who

> can afford to 'virtue signal' and try and make the

> pragmatic feel that they are 'racist' 'heartless'

> etc etc are totally responsible.

Why do you come up with this guff ?

[jaywalker]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

It would be easier today

> just to issue debit cards that would discounted by

> a taxed amount each month - use it or lose it.

> The stamped amount would effectively add to the

> multiplier effect of the money. It could also be

> an interesting experiment in a Universal Wage for

> all to see how it might pan out for the future

> robot infested world. If coupled with some QE for

> public infrastructure it would stimulate the

> economy in a positive manner - Welcome back,

> Pozzo; the Chicago Boys exit stage right - your

> time in the limelight is about too end.

I really like this idea. I'm a big fan of the idea of a Universal Wage for all adults (over 16s probably as I think prolonged compulsory schooling is a great evil). I hadn't thought about the flexibility this would give monetary policy (the only policy that won't get crowded out in a free exchange rate with perfect capital mobility world, apart from distribution on the fiscal side - as you say, infrastructure). And it would be fair in its impact. I have been appalled by the crass way quantitative easing has benefited so distorted a part of the economy.

I do not think people quite appreciate how much QE has been done (and will continue to be done). Time we recognised ourselves as together, and support each other as such.

uncleglen, for every person on whom you vent your spleen there are many others who - as the LSE determined definitively - make a strong positive net contribution to the economy. In an age when the native born population is ageing rapidly we would be increasingly lost without foreign workers. Why TM is scaring me to death, frankly.

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

A Russian I met (who is on the benefits

> fiddle big time incidentally) told me that the

> reason people flock here is because they feel

> 'safe'...i.e. they have children and will never be

> on the streets even if they deliberately do not

> pay their rent. Added to that the EU citizens who

> are feathering their nests back home at our

> expense, and are not ploughing their wages back

> into the UK economy, means we are doomed in the

> long run- thank goodness for massive rent

> increases because at least some of the money stays

> here.

It's amazing, on the one hand you appear to express nothing but contempt and indeed hatred for immigrants, on the other you're always telling us how they've told you this that and the other, even confessing to you when they're on the fiddle. You must have a very trustworthy face. As for the rest of your post, it's well up to your usual standards of frothing unsubstantiated drivel.

[JoeLeg]

Please don't feed the troll.

UG is convinced that immigrants are the reason for all this countries ills; that and the bleeding heart liberals that tolerate them. He's unable to understand the fact that many industries would collapse without them.

Immigration is an issue that certainly hasn't been addressed properly by many (especially on the 'left'), but the current knee jerk reactionism espoused by people like him will throw the baby out with the bathwater. They have no coherent plan to fill the positions that would be left vacant. Hatred of foreigners is far more at the core of what UG feels.

I'm very happy to debate to merits and ills of immigration (and there certainly are problems, not least of which is this countries continuous, decades-old reliance on foreign workers especially for low-skilled jobs). It's not racists to ask if we've over-reached. But the blanket dismissal of any idea of immigration being useful is not helpful.

[JohnL]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Please don't feed the troll.

>

> UG is convinced that immigrants are the reason for

> all this countries ills; that and the bleeding

> heart liberals that tolerate them. He's unable to

> understand the fact that many industries would

> collapse without them.

>

> Immigration is an issue that certainly hasn't been

> addressed properly by many (especially on the

> 'left'), but the current knee jerk reactionism

> espoused by people like him will throw the baby

> out with the bathwater. They have no coherent plan

> to fill the positions that would be left vacant.

> Hatred of foreigners is far more at the core of

> what UG feels.

>

> I'm very happy to debate to merits and ills of

> immigration (and there certainly are problems, not

> least of which is this countries continuous,

> decades-old reliance on foreign workers especially

> for low-skilled jobs). It's not racists to ask if

> we've over-reached. But the blanket dismissal of

> any idea of immigration being useful is not

> helpful.

Maybe we need more immigrants

I struggle to get good builders/plumbers etc. Often

someone will come around to assess something and you

never hear anything from them again (maybe the job is

out of there ability - maybe too much work already ?).

I haven't used the business section - so no bad comment

meant on that :)

[rendelharris]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe we need more immigrants

>

> I struggle to get good builders/plumbers etc.

> Often

> someone will come around to assess something and

> you

> never hear anything from them again (maybe the job

> is

> out of there ability - maybe too much work already

> ?).

You want to ask uncleglen about that, I seem to recall he was telling us a few weeks ago that immigrant electricians work for ?20 a day!

[JohnL]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Maybe we need more immigrants

> >

> > I struggle to get good builders/plumbers etc.

> > Often

> > someone will come around to assess something

> and

> > you

> > never hear anything from them again (maybe the

> job

> > is

> > out of there ability - maybe too much work

> already

> > ?).

>

> You want to ask uncleglen about that, I seem to

> recall he was telling us a few weeks ago that

> immigrant electricians work for ?20 a day!

Go Compare with UG :)

[Lordship 516]

jaywalker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I really like this idea. I'm a big fan of the idea

> of a Universal Wage for all adults (over 16s

> probably as I think prolonged compulsory schooling

> is a great evil). I hadn't thought about the

> flexibility this would give monetary policy (the

> only policy that won't get crowded out in a free

> exchange rate with perfect capital mobility world,

> apart from distribution on the fiscal side - as

> you say, infrastructure). And it would be fair in

> its impact. I have been appalled by the crass way

> quantitative easing has benefited so distorted a

> part of the economy.

The surest manner to do this is to distribute it to all who:

a] Have a NI Number - only available to those over 16 entitled to work in the UK;

b] Tax affairs up to date;

c] Are registered to vote in local elections - only available to UK permanent residents over 16 [extend eligibility]

d] Actually vote - if you don't vote, you lose your Universal Wage. [turnouts would be very high]

If you fail any criterion, then no UW.

[Otta]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I can assure you, with a weak leader like Corbyn, Blair will be sniffing around for any opportunity.

> And he's an evil man.

Evil man?

Really?

I never voted for him, and he made some big mistake that have ruined his legacy. But evil?

[DaveR]

In my experience, never having voted for Blair makes you more likely to take a measured view of the man and his actions. I never voted for him, and always thought his 'Third Way' business was a load of guff, but I never hated him or thought he was evil, and I don't now. The hatred of Blair seems to me to be a combination of the sense of betrayal from all across the Left, particularly for cosying up to G W Bush, plus the general polarisation in contemporary politics (for which see this thread generally)

[Earl Aelfheah]

Blair's government did some great things. His legacy will of course, forever be overshadowed by Iraq. That said, anyone who thinks the then Conservative alternative wouldn't have also blindly followed Dubya into that quagmire wasn't paying attention at the time.

[Alan Medic]

To use a football analogy, I hope that Teresa May is to elections as BFS was to England management. I will vote for anyone with the best chance of stopping another Conservative government. I seriously hope the opposition do not continue to rule out a coalition, if that's what it takes.

[JohnL]

If Theresa May doesn't lose votes after her recent outbursts then she never will.

Accusing our international partners of trying to sabotage the election - they're all in bed with Corbyn no doubt.

[Louisa]

All this posturing from May is pathetic. It feels like we've turned the clocks back 30 years. There's absolutely no need to play party politics over such a significant issue as this, we need to prevent her from being given the mandate she so desires.

Louisa.

[JohnL]

A bit tongue in cheek - but I think the remainers might well be next in line for blame.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-is-already-blaming-brussels-for-the-failure-of-brexit-and-it-will-be-the-remainers-next-a7716361.html

[Earl Aelfheah]

The whole thing is ridiculous. May knows Brexit is a disaster, but she feels obliged to play along because, you know.. will of the people and all that. It's a sham.

[steveo]

rahrahrah: What would you have her do?

Louisa: Why would you want her position weakened?

[Lordship 516]

May & Hammond avoiding the necessary Statement of Financial Position - screeching no,no,no at the EU figure but not providing any alternative to clarify the UK's exposure to shared EU pensions, projects & support schemes that the UK was a willing party to. There will be a need to settle this with some being paid as a lump sum & some more being paid in installments as they become due & payable.

This is obviously a conscious policy on their part as they must have an idea of the exposure & don't want to let the electorate know because it would affect the votes they might get.

L'addition always has to be paid.

[Villager]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To use a football analogy, I hope that Teresa May

> is to elections as BFS was to England management.

> I will vote for anyone with the best chance of

> stopping another Conservative government. I

> seriously hope the opposition do not continue to

> rule out a coalition, if that's what it takes.

BFS?

WIFS is BFS?

[jaywalker]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jaywalker Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I really like this idea.

> The surest manner to do this is to distribute it

> to all who:

> a] Have a NI Number - only available to those over

> 16 entitled to work in the UK;

> b] Tax affairs up to date;

> c] Are registered to vote in local elections -

> only available to UK permanent residents over 16

> d] Actually vote - if you don't vote, you lose

> your Universal Wage.

>

> If you fail any criterion, then no UW.

Yes, this makes much sense. The only nuance is that in d) you must actually turn up to vote but there is always a box to tick that says 'none of the above'.

I think Utopian exercises of this kind are well worth while, particularly in these dark times. We must imagine possible sunshine despite the cold and absence of light. The Times today gives the supine cowards of Theresa May's parliamentary party (the majority of them think that 1. Brexit is an appalling idea 2. that May is a terrible leader) such a big lead that they will have a majority of about 200. We should tremble at that.

[Loz]

Villager Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> BFS?

>

> WIFS is BFS?

British Foam Stores. :))

[malumbu]

Gawd David Davis as an objectionable twot, neo colonialist, with England and the English language ruling the world.