Man arrested in connection with Dulwich Park stabbing

[rendelharris]

"Remains critical" according to Standard eleven hours ago. Awful testimony from his friend, sounds as though the perpetrator was determined to stab for no reason: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/dulwich-park-attack-man-arrested-for-attempted-murder-after-italian-national-stabbed-in-the-head-in-a3527606.html

[indiepanda]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Remains critical" according to Standard eleven

> hours ago. Awful testimony from his friend,

> sounds as though the perpetrator was determined to

> stab for no reason:

> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/dulwich-park-

> attack-man-arrested-for-attempted-murder-after-ita

> lian-national-stabbed-in-the-head-in-a3527606.html

Yes, this doesn't sound like a standard mugging - if this article is accurate he stabbed the guy in the head before he even had a chance to get out the phone the attacker demanded.

[lilolil]

Update

[KidKruger]

'GBH' ??!

I just knew it.

Stab a guy in the head with a screwdriver and don't get charged for attempted murder.

[JoeLeg]

The problem is attempted murder means they'd have to prove he intended to kill the victim, which is tricky. No good charging them with something they'll likely evade.

The case for GBH is much more likely to result in a conviction.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be chargers with attempted murder, just that I can understand why it's happened that way.

[Dulwich61]

JoeLeg is entirely correct as matters currently stand.

We all highly hope and pray the victim pulls through, but if he dies the charge will most certainly be upgraded to murder. No intent to kill need be proven on a murder charge: intent to cause GBH is enough for a conviction. That's been the law since 1957 at latest (R v Vickers, confirmed by the House of Lords in R v Moloney in 1985).

And yes, I'm a lawyer ...

[KidKruger]

Yeah I get the legalese and understand why it's GBH.

It's just that, when you stab someone in the head with a screwdriver, what is your intent ? Wounding ? Maybe best stab 'em in the shoulder then. Killing them ? OK, best go for the head.

Let's hope the bloke pulls though OK and the attacker gets heaviest penalty possible.

[jimbo1964]

I second that. Sounds particularly brutal. The person is obviously a dangerous individual.

[JohnL]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The problem is attempted murder means they'd have

> to prove he intended to kill the victim, which is

> tricky. No good charging them with something

> they'll likely evade.

>

> The case for GBH is much more likely to result in

> a conviction.

>

> I'm not saying he shouldn't be chargers with

> attempted murder, just that I can understand why

> it's happened that way.

Non payment of fines - obviously has a record for something.

[uncleglen]

I'd've thought going tooled up is a valid enough reason for murder if a victim dies- unless the perp is a carpenter which is doubtful because they are usually gentile likeable chaps/esses in my experience

[Jules-and-Boo]

do we know how the victim is?

[Phlox]

A while back, I saw a man stab a woman in the side with a screwdriver at the HSBC cashpoint on Lordship Lane to get the money she had drawn out. He threw the screwdriver into the gutter and took off. Until then, I didn't even know that screwdrivers were used as weapons. This happened mid morning time.

[sandyman]

A while ago i had a problem with the lock on my car door. The AA man showed me how to open the door with a screwdriver but warned me that if i was found carrying a screwdriver I could be charged with something (carrying a offensive weapon?).

Phlox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A while back, I saw a man stab a woman in the side

> with a screwdriver at the HSBC cashpoint on

> Lordship Lane to get the money she had drawn out.

> He threw the screwdriver into the gutter and took

> off. Until then, I didn't even know that

> screwdrivers were used as weapons. This happened

> mid morning time.

[rendelharris]

sandyman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A while ago i had a problem with the lock on my

> car door. The AA man showed me how to open the

> door with a screwdriver but warned me that if i

> was found carrying a screwdriver I could be

> charged with something (carrying a offensive

> weapon?).

As I understand it the courts have decided that an unmodified screwdriver (i.e. one that hasn't been sharpened to a point) doesn't fall under the Criminal Justice Act 1988 which makes it an offence to have "any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed" in a public place (excluding folding pocket knives of less than 3 inches). However a screwdriver can be classed as an offensive weapon if it can be proved it was being carried for that purpose. So you're not going to get done carrying a screwdriver round to a friend's house to wire a plug for them, or indeed going out to unlock your car (provided your explanation is believed of course), but carrying one around without a good reason is likely to get you in trouble if stopped.

(Not legally trained but read up on all the regulations when teaching secondary school in Vauxhall to make sure my lads knew what the law was)

[sandyman]

Thanks for the reassurance. As it happens I had to pop over to my elderly mother at the weekend to fix her cistern and took a couple of screwdrivers with me so this was on my mind again. i would imagine the chances of getting a conviction for finding a tiny screwdriver in the glove compartment would be pretty slim. And as it happens I often carry a small swiss army penknife with me, which i assume is legal but could probably do more damage in the wrong hands.

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> sandyman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > A while ago i had a problem with the lock on my

> > car door. The AA man showed me how to open the

> > door with a screwdriver but warned me that if i

> > was found carrying a screwdriver I could be

> > charged with something (carrying a offensive

> > weapon?).

>

> As I understand it the courts have decided that

> an unmodified screwdriver (i.e. one that hasn't

> been sharpened to a point) doesn't fall under the

> Criminal Justice Act 1988 which makes it an

> offence to have "any article which has a blade or

> is sharply pointed" in a public place (excluding

> folding pocket knives of less than 3 inches).

> However a screwdriver can be classed as an

> offensive weapon if it can be proved it was being

> carried for that purpose. So you're not going to

> get done carrying a screwdriver round to a

> friend's house to wire a plug for them, or indeed

> going out to unlock your car (provided your

> explanation is believed of course), but carrying

> one around without a good reason is likely to get

> you in trouble if stopped.

>

> (Not legally trained but read up on all the

> regulations when teaching secondary school in

> Vauxhall to make sure my lads knew what the law

> was)

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I don't understand why people are disappointed that the suspect was charged with GBH and not attempted murder. They both carry a maximum life sentence. What more do you want?

[KidKruger]

the longest sentence possible (which, in this case, won't be anywhere near 'life' [which never means life anyway]) obviously.

[JohnL]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't understand why people are disappointed

> that the suspect was charged with GBH and not

> attempted murder. They both carry a maximum life

> sentence. What more do you want?

Assuming its with intent (which it must be)

[Borky]

S 18 vs S 20 - can be hard to prove WI without a confession - it may have nothing to do with implement or outcome.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I don't understand why people are disappointed

> > that the suspect was charged with GBH and not

> > attempted murder. They both carry a maximum

> life

> > sentence. What more do you want?

>

> Assuming its with intent (which it must be)

If you couldn't show intent to cause serious bodily harm, youd never be able to make attempted murder stick. But this doesn't strike me as one of those tricky cases...

[Wimpole]

Hi all, I'm sure that as a community all our thoughts are with the innocent man who was stabbed trying to do the right thing in Dulwich Park in this horrific attack. Does anyone have any news on his condition in hospital they are able to share? It would be good to pass on our wishes....

[Ruskin]

Ditto Wimpole. Every time I enter the park I think of the young victim.

Wishing him well.

Ruskin.

[Positivevibes]

I am really really lost for words and i cannot get my head around an absolutley crazy neighbour who in 2009 was arrested for attempting to stab me in the head!!and will not leave me alone!!

This woman is a mother of adult children, a grandmother and a carer/guardian for her brothers 2 primary school age children. (Her brother no doubt back in prison).

This woman lives on the top flat of our building, i am on the groundfloor of Lordship Lane. She came into my house to shouting swearing came to attack me, we had a struggle and then she grabs a knife and trys to stab me in the head, luckily i had hold of her hair and so she could not see or get a full angle on the knife to cause some damage. However, my flat door was open and my son 9yo at the time, was running in and out screaming in hysterics, a neighbour came running in and also this womans brother who all witnessed it. We both eventually let go of each other and she runs off back up to her flat. The other neighbour was trying to console each of us etc between the 2 flats. The police was called from both me and this other woman. I did not get a police visit at all that evening, the next morning i see a police car and assume it was for me, but the police went upstairs to this woman. On their way out of the building i called them back and asked them why has nobody come to assist me, for some reason they were told that everything was ok ( i am assuming that it was this neighbour who attacked me). Anyway after explaining to the police exactly what happened they could not believe it. This neighbour was then arrested and taken to a police station for some days.

Cut a long story short. The neighbour that witnessed the attack was to be a witness in the court, but dropped out the day before, due to intimidation & threats from this womans family, she told me that she was sorry but she is scared for her life & her childrens, she moved out of the building the following year due to ongoing abuse.

So, the case goes to court, i am in the witness room and awaiting results etc, the court advisor comes in after a couple of hours and says, " because the witness had dropped out, it is now my word against the defendants and so she has pleaded self defence" i was in complete shock! What do i do know? The court advisor says, " oh the defendant represented her self quite well, told me that i would be contacted by victim support and that was it.

I have had continuous abuse from this woman and her family since then over the years, but abuse that you cannot prove, like harrassment, things happening around the home, broken window, door lock been tampered with, huge dirty creatures been thrown through my windows, social services being called, tax office investigations, ambulances being called, fire engines, police being called for nothing, people ringing my doorbell at 4am, sometimes there is peace and quiet. However, 2017 my son is now 16yo and very quiet decent boy, does not go out much or have too many friends, he accepted a friend request from a friend who use to live in our area but is grown up now and a father, however after having so much abuse online i had to do some research into who was sending these terrible links/messages to my friends and family somehow. I could not find them but i began to sense that these messages would only come from this woman who attacked me in 2009, but we were not linked on facebook. i went to my sons profile and checked his friends list and saw this friend that he had accepted and i knew it had to be him. Checked his friends list and yes thus woman, her brothers, and family were all linked, as soon as my son deleted this friend all the abuse stopped. However, it seemed that they were not happy and started to attack my other social media profiles etc and i could hear them from my house shouting abuse, laughing etc, throwing things through my window, ringing door bell etc etc. We also have new neighbours, they do not talk to me (good morning etc),they seem fearful of me. I am having a hard time as it seems that this woman is intent on ruining my reputation in the area and with everyone i know, i feel that when i go out people look at me, watch me and fear me, i honestly believe that this woman may have a picture of me and is going around saying that i am bad.

I have come onto this forum to let people know that i am not this character that she has made up, this woman IS!! You can search police records, victim support for this, i have reported to the housing team etc still trying to move home whilst i stay away at friends etc in the meantime.

She lives at The top flat 557 Lordship Lane.

It is unacceptable, why sould this woman get away with this? She is a mother a grandmother, teaching all these children in her care that it is ok to attack people in thus way and that you get away with it if you bully and intimidate people, it is not fair that she is now allowing all her sons teenage friend to abuse me this is wrong!!!

[shipladylord]

Hi,

The victim is a friend of mine and I thought it would be nice to post an update.

He is doing well, considering that two weeks after this awful event the doctors were not hopeful. He was put into an induced coma and a blood clot was removed, but he suffered a large amount of swelling on the brain.

However. He is a fighter, and the critical care team that he is under are amazingly awesome.

He moved from critical care to HDU, and is now out of there also. He can talk, go outside for short periods of time in a wheelchair, have visits from his dog and will hopefully go to a rehabilitation centre in the not too distant future.

All positive thoughts contribute to his recovery!

[lilolil]

Thank you for the update. I had been wondering how he was.