Weaning breastfed baby before 6 months

[Moos]

My HV has given me vitamin supplements for my baby, saying that 'they' were now recommending all exclusively breastfed babies be given supplemental vitamins because of iron and other vitamin deficiencies. Is that not standard across the board these days?

[Gussy]

yea I think it supposed to be. I was told to take some but never did...(not needed in my opinion).

[Fuschia]

Moos Wrote:

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> My HV has given me vitamin supplements for my

> baby, saying that 'they' were now recommending all

> exclusively breastfed babies be given supplemental

> vitamins because of iron and other vitamin

> deficiencies. Is that not standard across the

> board these days?

isnt that vit d? rather than iron?

[sophiechristophy]

Can it really be possible that we evolved to produce milk for our babies that doesn't contain what the babies need, so as to necessitate the artificial addition of a vitamin/iron supplement, which we only know if they need by doing blood tests?

how has the human race survived?

[Moos]

Fuschia, I'll check - yes vit D but think also iron.

[helena handbasket]

sophiechristophy Wrote:

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> Can it really be possible that we evolved to

> produce milk for our babies that doesn't contain

> what the babies need, so as to necessitate the

> artificial addition of a vitamin/iron supplement,

> which we only know if they need by doing blood

> tests?

>

> how has the human race survived?

Our diet and lifestyles have changed dramatically in what would be a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms. Our bodies simply haven't had the time to adapt.

Anyway, isn't that what we refer to in the animal world as survival as the fittest? It's just that now we have the knowledge to keep more of the "less fit" alive.

The other day I was visiting a very elderly relative in hospital and mentioned to her nurse that I thought she was on an awful lot of medication, and wondered if it was all necessary. She said it was quite normal for someone her age (87) and that it was really what is keeping all of these people alive for so long.

Science is not our enemy.

Edited to add: She's only in with an infection, otherwise her social calender puts mine to shame.

[Fuschia]

Moos Wrote:

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> Fuschia, I'll check - yes vit D but think also

> iron.

With the twins we were given vit D (I didn't take) as apparently in Southwark some babies are deficient (dark skinned?)

[Fuschia]

Govt sites suggest vit A,C and D from 6m

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/HavingABaby/AfterTheBirth/DG_078330

[sophiechristophy]

"Our diet and lifestyles have changed dramatically in what would be a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms. Our bodies simply haven't had the time to adapt."

- It is true that in recent times, we have moved away from eating traditional foods, and have moved towards eating processed and refined foods. We have also become more sedentary, and lifestyles less active. There are many well known health implications to this.

This is most true for indigenous populations, who have experienced these changes most rapidly. Indigenous Australians, for example, who were living as hunter gatherers before the arrival of Europeans to Australia.

In this article about nutrition and growth among Australian indigenous peoples:

http://www.healthinfonet.ecu.edu.au/health-risks/nutrition/plain-language/our-review

the health implications of this are acknowledged. However, it also states that babies of indigenous Australians thrive and grow normally, whilst still breastfed, and it is only once weaned to solids that they encounter health and growth issues.

Science is not our enemy, however it is also not without it's limitations and corruptions and should not be regarded as an unquestionable authority.

[helena handbasket]

I wonder why everyone is not advised? The city I currently live in is the same latitude as London, but we get so much more sunshine Dec.- Feb. (in spite of low temperatures). As I mentioned earlier, the first thing my doctor checked when I returned from the UK was my vit. D for this reason, and she said it was shockingly low. So it stands to reason that I am/was not the only woman of child bearing age in London who did not know how dangerously low my vit. D was (my awful GP certainly wasn't going to test for it). If there are many other mothers out there the same (and I can only assume there are) than it doesn't seem like a huge leap in the imagination to assume their babies are also? I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to at least know this and find out for themselves and their children. My doctor is English (trained as well) so isn't just making it up.

Anyway we're on "the D" it now to make up for it.

[helena handbasket]

sophiechristophy Wrote:

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> "Our diet and lifestyles have changed dramatically

> in what would be a blink of an eye in evolutionary

> terms. Our bodies simply haven't had the time to

> adapt."

>

> - It is true that in recent times, we have moved

> away from eating traditional foods, and have moved

> towards eating processed and refined foods. We

> have also become more sedentary, and lifestyles

> less active. There are many well known health

> implications to this.

>

> This is most true for indigenous populations, who

> have experienced these changes most rapidly.

> Indigenous Australians, for example, who were

> living as hunter gatherers before the arrival of

> Europeans to Australia.

>

> In this article about nutrition and growth among

> Australian indigenous peoples:

> http://www.healthinfonet.ecu.edu.au/health-risks/n

> utrition/plain-language/our-review

>

> the health implications of this are acknowledged.

> However, it also states that babies of indigenous

> Australians thrive and grow normally, whilst still

> breastfed, and it is only once weaned to solids

> that they encounter health and growth issues.

>

> Science is not our enemy, however it is also not

> without it's limitations and corruptions and

> should not be regarded as an unquestionable

> authority.

Well I live in Canada and we have obviously our own indigenous peoples here who are included in all health policy. So that is already a factor.

Edited to add: Here it is not "most true for indigenous populations" because many are living lifestyles closer to their ancestors (while it is true that there have been many western influences that have done them no favours). It's those of us in the city who have drastically different lifestyles than out pioneering ancestors only two or three generations ago.

[Fuschia]

HH: there isn't really evidence as to whether lower than optimal levels of vitamin D in toddlers is a problem, from what I can gather

[helena handbasket]

Well than I guess it's up to each person to do that risk assessment and decide what they want.

I'm just saying there;s always more to it than a google search will necessarily tell you.

[sophiechristophy]

Helena - my point was that your comment that our bodies haven't had the 'time to adapt' regarding their production of breastmilk providing sufficient nutrients for babies is untrue.

[radnrach]

I hope no-one minds me bringing this up again, but I'm still working through this whole 'early weaning' deal, and have come across some advice that does really make me think I'm doing the right thing by introducing baby rice, etc. before 6 months (my son is now 20 weeks).

Possible signs baby wants to wean:

He has been taking full feeds 4-5 times a day from both breasts and gets irritable and chews his hands right after. (my son has at least 8-10 full feeds a day, not including his night feeds. He has recently taken to waking up halfway through his nap for some food and going back to sleep. This is not for comfort, he has almost a full feed then, too)

He screams for more when the feed finishes. (My son is always hungry. always. If I express in the morning to feed him later when my milk supply is less, he cries because there's not enough milk in the morning/afternoon. He is always hungry right after his feeds.)

He wakes up more in the middle of the night and has full feeds. (my son wakes up all.the.time. The longest amount of time he is asleep is 3 hours. I've tried leaving it, rocking him to sleep, etc. Last night I tested out whether it was the fact he wasn't hungry, and we were up for an hour until I fed him. He will go back to sleep but then minutes later scream the house down because: he is hungry. Every time he wakes up, he eats.)

He is at least 4 months and has doubled his birth weight and weighs over 15lbs (my son was born 7lbs 11 ounces and now weights 19lbs), and your HV is happy with his weight gain each week (she is more than happy).

In contrast to Fuschia and others in this thread, the hospital staff at Kings/midwives/health visitors have always been very pro exclusively breast feeding. I attended the BF workshop, which only confirmed my decision to breastfeed for as long as I could and to work through all the difficult issues. Nobody has once suggested that I use formula as a top up, or that I wean early. When I last visited my HV, I was the one that mentioned giving him baby rice, because he was literally wanting to eat constantly, and I was worried that his hunger was changing his temperament from a content, happy baby to a constantly hungry, grizzly baby. Only after I asked did my HV recommend early weaning with baby rice and breastmilk and perhaps adding in vegetables and fruit. I will not be introducing solids until after 6 months old.

So far I have offered baby rice twice, and to be honest it didn't really effect how much he is eating. I wonder if I perhaps have not given him enough because I'm so worried due to all the conflicting evidence and advice! Therefore, I have made the decision to give it a go properly and hope that I am doing the right thing.

This motherhood thing - seriously. The hours I've spent deliberating and worrying about this. It's got to get easier, right?! :))

[Fuschia]

Radnrach, have you read though about brain devt and the "4 month sleep regression"?

[radnrach]

Hi Fuschia - I've just had a good read and think he could be going through this. Although I think it's a separate issue from the constantly hungry one. Thanks for letting me know, at least I can start to deal with one issue now. :)

Edited to ask: Has anybody who's already experienced this 4-month sleep regression have any pointers? He usually spends the first half of the night in his moses basket, and then I give up and co-sleep for the rest of the night. I'm not sure I should be doing this if I need to start developing healthy sleep habits (for him and me).

[Fuschia]

My ds1 weaned at 17w as was the norm then had all those signs but the solids made no difference

[Smiler]

i don't think ther's anything "unhealthy" about co-sleeping per se, but it isn't for everyone. With DD1 I hoped that introducing solids aroun 6 months, then later switching to formula would help with sleep, but didn't, boo hoo.

With DD2 am ignoring all advice on when to introduce solids and doing what I feel like, none yet (5 months now).

[snowboarder]

Solids made no difference to little snowboarder's sleep habits. But Radnrach - it's not just sleep that is the issue, right? So tricky - because all the early weaning foods are often fruit and veg based and carrot etc certainly not as filling as full fat milk!

I do like the blw book's guide - which if I remember is basically that if a baby is sturdy enough to sit up in a high chair and handle bits of food they are probably ready to start exploring things other than milk.

We def started having little snowboarder sit with us at meal times and play with bread, have tastes of yoghurt etc by about 5m....but we were a bit haphazard about weaning in general, looking back! No baby rice!

[Lue Lue]

sophiechristophy Wrote:

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Look at the breastfeeding rates in

> the UK as opposed to other European countries such

> as Sweden and Norway. What can explain this?

>

> Breastfeeding Rates Around the World

> Country % of mothers who start % who continue 6

> months or longer

> Sweden 98 53

> Norway 98 50

> Poland 93 10

> Canada 80 24

> Netherlands 68 25

> Britain 63 21

> United States 57 20

> Sources: Baby Milk Action, Cambridge, England;

> Center for Breastfeeding Information, Schaumburg,

> IL

A reason might be that Scandinavians generally have 12 months maternity leave compared to the UK where mothers in many occasions have to return back to work already after a few months. Maybe they don't find it worth the hassle?

I also believe a big reason is attitudes. In Sweden, no one would throw you out from a bus or give you a weird look just because you breastfeed in public. Breastfeeding is the norm there and you're rather considered strange if you bottle feed without having a special reason for this. Would be interesting to know why the attitudes differs so much..

I read a Swedish article the other month; a woman in Sweden went to the pub with her friend and her baby.. The bartender declined her a small glass of whine with the reason she was breastfeeding!