New 24/7 alcohol licence proposed 43 Grove Vale

[James Barber]

On Monday 14 February the Licensing Committee will decide on a new alcohol licence for 43 Grove Vale.

This site is in South Camberwell ward across the road from East Dulwich ward so I've only just been emailed the committee papers:

http://moderngov.southwarksites.com/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=3736&T=10

Did anyone spot the notice required by the applicant.

If you think selling alcohol 24/7/365 at this location is a good or bad idea do let the committee know.

The three councillors forming the Licensing Sub-Committee who will decide this are:

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

To object you have to explain why this application doesn't support one or more of the licensing objectives:

a. The prevention of crime and disorder;

b. Public safety;

c. The prevention of nuisance; and

d. The protection of children from harm.

[anonymous_third_part]

24 hour off licences are so handy- and its the only way small shops can compete with sainsburys, tesco etc. the only time they make their money is when other shops are closed.

i fully support the licence

[candp]

Oh great - *nimby statement coming up* - this would move the asbo crowd away from the illegal drinking den that is Kebab and Wine and closer to my house.

[Keef]

No it wouldn't. The people that would use kebab and wine are people that want to be out longer, and that is their only option. This shop will just be good en people wanting to grab a couple of beers on their way home at gone 2 in the moming. Fair play to them for applying for the license, most places just do it.

[candp]

"This shop will just be good en people wanting to grab a couple of beers on their way home at gone 2 in the morning." That's some pretty quick and dirty market research you've done. The only customers after 2am will be people who want to buy a couple of beers on their way home? Are you talking about the entire customer base or perhaps how you would use the shop? Because there are also people who drink in their homes, people who drink before 2am, people who want a special brew or 2 to warm up or because they're alcoholics, the clientele wandering leathered out of The Vale, the people in the chicken shop across the road who might decide they want some more booze and get in a fight about a spilt kebab and lots of other potential customers.

"Fair play to them for applying for the license, most places just do it." Do you believe that most places (which serve alcohol?) work outside of their licence or in the absence of one? The penalty for that is up to 6 months in prison and a ?20,000 fine.

[candp]

Edited because of technical stupidity on my part.

[James Barber]

If this new licence is granted 24/7 then other surrounding shops will feel the need to apply for such licences and drastically increase their opening hours. They'll then compete on price.

Clear evidence to show price and availability are related to excessive drinking and anti social behaviour. The biggest cause of violence in our area - talking to the Police - is excessive home drinking alcohol fueled domestic disputes.

So I have objected as a local councillor to this application. I hope others do as well. Equally if you think it's a great idea tell the sub committee members.

[ratty]

Yawn. How about we let them apply for the licence and complain about it, IF something bad happens??

[Sue0103]

Hi James,

Thanks for this. I completely agree with you and have mailed the above councillors to register my opposition. I'm oppossed to 24X7 alcohol license culture which only ensures people continue drinking even after all the pubs are shut. With the level of street crime in London that we have at the moment, it clearly shows that people cannot be trusted to employ restraint/good judgement after a binge drinking session. I don't think they should be encouraged any further.

Regards,

Sue

[DJKillaQueen]

People who want to buy alcohol after 2am have several places they can already do that within walking distance of Grove Vale. Having another outlet for that will make hardly any difference to what already exists.

Irresponsible drinkers have always existed and they are a minority of those who drink. Denying this license application will not have any effect on that and under the existing rules for objecting to licence applications I can not see any grounds for refusal (also indictated by lack of representation by the Police and trading Standards who see no problem with the application).

Where problems do occur with licensed premises, it is usually premises where people congregrate in groups (i.e. bars, clubs etc).

Also with regards to Kebab and Wine James. It breaches it's license every weekend which if I remember correctly, only licenses the sale of alcohol until 1 am.

[karter]

James could you state on here the distance from the premises people would have to be in order to object or approve to this. Thanks.

[James Barber]

Hi DJ,

We'll make a Liberal of you yet...;-)

If you have evidence of any licensed premise breaching its licence please do inform the licensing team: Tel: 020 7525 5748 [email protected]

If that fails please do escalate to me so I can ask what is going on.

Hi Karter,

You need to live in the vicinity. vicinity is defined in various dictionarys as the neighbourhood or district.

Hope this helps.

Hi Sue0103,

Thank you.

Hi ratty,

You think we should all let this application through with the expectation someone will invest heavily in their business and then once they've made that investment ensure it gets closed down if any breaches of its license - fights, attacks etc occur in our neighbourhood. That seems rather harsh suggestion.

[DJKillaQueen]

I am a liberal ....just not a liberal democrat these days James ;-)

[pk]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> once they've made that investment ensure it gets closed down if

> any breaches of its license - fights, attacks etc

> occur in our neighbourhood. That seems rather

> harsh suggestion.

it seems a bit harsh that a licensee would be expected to ensure that no fights occur in 'our neighbourhood', i agree

[JohnL]

They're not meantt to serve drunks though.

Did Sainsburys used to serve alcohol 24/7 when it was open all night ?

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James Barber Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > once they've made that investment ensure it gets

> closed down if

> > any breaches of its license - fights, attacks

> etc

> > occur in our neighbourhood. That seems rather

> > harsh suggestion.

>

> it seems a bit harsh that a licensee would be

> expected to ensure that no fights occur in 'our

> neighbourhood', i agree

[jumpinjackflash]

ratty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yawn. How about we let them apply for the licence

> and complain about it, IF something bad happens??

Amen!

[ratty]

Invest heavily in the business? I was under the obviously mistaken impression it was an existing business. Either way, with your condescending post, you've lost my vote ;)

[Keef]

Ratty spot on. Candp, sorry if you thought my post was rude, it wasn't meant to be, I just disagree with you. Fair enough, I've not done any market research. Equally, you have no idea whether all the "asbo crowd" will come anywhere near your house.

[RosieH]

If this new licence is granted 24/7 then other surrounding shops will feel the need to apply for such licences and drastically increase their opening hours. They'll then compete on price.

James, I'm interested to know what evidence you have for this. I assume by your use of "will" rather than "may" that you do have some evidence for your assertion, in which case, please share it here.

I'm not suggesting you're wrong, but I'm deeply uncomfortable that you seem to be using this forum as a platform to secure the outcome you prefer on a licence application. To move from please give your opinion to it will cause domestic violence to roaming fights in our neighbourhood in three posts without any supporting evidence is quite a leap. And such a leap wouldn't be acceptable on political literature without something to back it up.

Unfortunately it's a difficult situation - you are of course entitled to your own personal views. But you post on here in your capacity as councillor, and so people may naturally believe that you're privy to information that they are not. I think it behoves you not to sensationalise, and to provide evidence to back up your claims.

[Penguin68]

When Sainsburies were open 24/7 they did not have a 24 hour licence to sell booze, so that section used to be sealed-off, if memory serves.

[shell]

I'm pretty sure I have a hazy memory of a very late night/early morning tequilla run to sainsburys...

[DJKillaQueen]

Sainsburry's did sell alcohol 24/7 and I don't think there were really any problems apart for the security guards and attempted shop lifting.

The thing to remember as well, is that licenses can be taken away as easily as they are granted. There are several shops in the area with 24 hour alcohol licenses and there aren't massive anti-social behaviour issues as a result. Shops just aren't magnets for that, unlike bars and clubs.

[sandyman]

What places currently sell booze 24/7 in SE22?I didn't know any did and info might come in handy if I get a 5am thirst.

[DJKillaQueen]

There's a 24 hour off-licence opposite kebab and wine at the Grove Vale end of Lordship Lane. There is another one at the Peckham Rye corner of East Dulwich Road.

[ratty]

Does PayLess at bottom of Dog kennel Hill do so also?