Brexit View

[Lordship 516]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I agree with keano77- the article is biased and

> > from German so was probably instigated by

> Merkel

> > as they are scared stiff that France and

> Germany

> > are going to have to make up the shortfall. The

> > whole tone of Juncker and others is obviously

> that

> > of toys being thrown out of the pram. The EU

> will

> > NEVER have a reasonable debate- it is so up

> itself

> > that it will just carry on demanding.

>

> The EU is up itself?

>

> Not the UK? The country that decided to leave and

> then started making demands of the very thing it's

> leaving.

It's amazing all the guff & nonsense that is spoken about the EU & their vulnerability if they don't do a deal suitable to the UK.

The EU would very much like to do a mutually suitable deal but if the UK push too much they will simply walk away. Take a look at what the Germans achieved when they took Eastern Germany in - they had problems [and still have some hangover] but they managed quite admirably & just got on with the job. They will do so again.

Unfortunately the UK are in the role of supplicant and grandstanding will just not cut the mustard. Soft Brexit will suit the EU. With hard Brexit the UK will be very much on their own.

If they go down the hard route then they will have control of their incoming borders but not the outgoing borders which will be busy with the ensuing exodus of many qualified personnel, both of foreign & UK origin who will be attracted elsewhere to stable jobs.

Reality beckons.

[Loz]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I agree with keano77- the article is biased and

> from German so was probably instigated by Merkel

> as they are scared stiff that France and Germany

> are going to have to make up the shortfall.

From Swiss German, UG. I realise your knowledge of Europe is limited, but they are actually really quite different countries.

Especially as one of them isn't in the EU.

[red devil]

EU 1 UK 0 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/19/uk-caves-in-to-eu-demand-to-agree-divorce-bill-before-trade-talks

The first reader's comment I saw summed it up pretty well...We're fooked :)

[Jenny1]

So Mark Carney was saying this morning that as 'Project Economic Suicide' gains momentum, finessing monetary policy won't help much. But we do have a bit of a choice between job losses and inflation. Am I right in thinking that he's plumped for inflation - given that he's keeping the interest rates low? If so, seems like a sound choice in the circs.

[red devil]

I suspect he's more concerned with the level of debt, esp mortgage related, it's a ticking timebomb for a lot of borrowers should rates start climbing...

[steveo]

If you've ever tried to do a deal with an Irishman over a car, tractor, house, horse or gram of speed, you'll be familiar with all the posturing, bullying, leaving the room, coming back in again, foul language, threats of violence and general wailing and gnashing of teeth with which it is accompanied.

What you don't do is quickly agree a price, shake hands and leave the room happy... either of you.

There's a very long way to go yet

[keano77]

Did Mark Carney use the words 'Project Economic Suicide'? If so in what context?

Red Devil is correct, unsecured debt is a real worry for the BoE with car finance being a real concern. Increased rates will see repossessions and bankruptcies soar after years of low rates.

[Lordship 516]

They cannot control the current spate of inflation which is lead by the already reduced value of the pound - inflation will rise regardless of rises in interest rates; they are opting to try to maintain employment & keeping interest low to help businesses that export & secondly holding back the impact of interest rate rises on personal borrowings. For them there is little choice - incomes will remain flat for the foreseeable future. The three members of the MPC that voted for increases are a bit detached from the realities of world that we find ourselves in.

To eat the cake the Johnson has yabbered on about first you need the ingredients & then you have to bake it. The cupboard is frugal & the oven cold.

[Jenny1]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Did Mark Carney use the words 'Project Economic

> Suicide'? If so in what context?

>

Do you know, that's all my own!! But I'm not going to trademark the phrase, as I feel sharing is important.

Mark Carney used much more diplomatic and technical language.

[keano77]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Did Mark Carney use the words 'Project Economic

> > Suicide'? If so in what context?

> >

>

> Do you know, that's all my own!! But I'm not going

> to trademark the phrase, as I feel sharing is

> important.

>

> Mark Carney used much more diplomatic and

> technical language.

I thought so, thanks. He'd have been sacked if he had openly referred to Brexit in such terms.

[Lordship 516]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Did Mark Carney use the words 'Project Economic

> > Suicide'? If so in what context?

> >

>

> Do you know, that's all my own!! But I'm not going

> to trademark the phrase, as I feel sharing is

> important.

>

> Mark Carney used much more diplomatic and

> technical language.

Jenny1

You are not so far off the mark. There is a well respected economist - Robin Hahnel - who has pursued this theme in a many writings & a book "Economic Justice and Democracy" where he discusses how the elite are engaging in policies that are destroying our economies; this is in association with right wing, centre right & centre left parties throughout the western economies and warns that they are very much untouchable for all the reasons that Corbyn & co rail against.

The wealth of the wealthy top 1% is mobile & they & their families are not affected by the same economic conditions as are the rest us us. They have leveraged & co-opted the services of most political parties, legal & accounting consultants, the googles, Facebooks & Murdoch's of the world and don't care that the health, education & welfare systems are falling apart as they are not affected by these. These are the people who control the world, swan around the G7, G20, Bilderburg, Davos & other great conferences where they decide on more & more neoliberal austerity for the many in order they they & their well paid cohort of privileged hirelings prosper.

[JoeLeg]

Plus ca change...

[Jenny1]

red devil Wrote:

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> I suspect he's more concerned with the level of

> debt,

Thanks. Makes sense.

[Jenny1]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

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> They cannot control the current spate of inflation

> which is lead by the already reduced value of the

> pound - inflation will rise regardless of rises in

> interest rates; they are opting to try to

> maintain employment

Thanks. I got it the wrong way round then.

[Jenny1]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

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>

> The wealth of the wealthy top 1% is mobile & they

> & their families are not affected by the same

> economic conditions as are the rest us us.

That makes sense. I'll have a look at Hahnel. Gross economic inequality is iniquitous and makes for a sadder society. But my instincts are always towards working to improve the current imperfect status quo rather than revolutionary change. The former approach usually leads to more profound and lasting improvements in my view.

[Lordship 516]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> That makes sense. I'll have a look at Hahnel.

> Gross economic inequality is iniquitous and makes

> for a sadder society. But my instincts are always

> towards working to improve the current imperfect

> status quo rather than revolutionary change. The

> former approach usually leads to more profound and

> lasting improvements in my view.

I agree with you entirely on that. Using the existing frameworks is the only way to survive & causes least disruption. The experiments in Russia, China & elsewhere have proven catastrophic but the manner in which Sweden, Norway & other similar countries have moderated their economies has proven a good model to emulate but with a few slight changes - they are still fairly dominated by mega rich families.

[Seabag]

Here a view from George Soros

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/george-soros-what-a-change-of-approach-from-theresa-may-could-mean-for-brexit/?utm_campaign=Feed%3A+inside-the-world-economic-forum+%28Inside+The+World+Economic+Forum%29&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=feedburner

[Alan Medic]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you've ever tried to do a deal with an Irishman

> over a car, tractor, house, horse or gram of

> speed, you'll be familiar with all the posturing,

> bullying, leaving the room, coming back in again,

> foul language, threats of violence and general

> wailing and gnashing of teeth with which it is

> accompanied.

>

> What you don't do is quickly agree a price, shake

> hands and leave the room happy... either of you.

>

> There's a very long way to go yet

An Irishman? I'm missing the context here. Please enlighten me as I'm unfamiliar with your description.

[Lordship 516]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> steveo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you've ever tried to do a deal with an

> Irishman

> > over a car, tractor, house, horse or gram of

> > speed, you'll be familiar with all the

> posturing,

> > bullying, leaving the room, coming back in

> again,

> > foul language, threats of violence and general

> > wailing and gnashing of teeth with which it is

> > accompanied.

> >

> > What you don't do is quickly agree a price,

> shake

> > hands and leave the room happy... either of

> you.

> >

> > There's a very long way to go yet

>

> An Irishman? I'm missing the context here. Please

> enlighten me as I'm unfamiliar with your

> description.

Me neither - seems stevo might be a bit of a grandstander himself?

Also a tad racist ? How about watching English away fans at a football match ? Describe & apply to all English people.

[Alan Medic]

There's a programme on BBC2 @ 9 tonight called Brexit Means Brexit. Filmed over the last year. Might be worth watching or recording.

[steveo]

De rigeur humourless offence taking

[Lordship 516]

steveo Wrote:

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> De rigeur humourless offence taking

..eh? a bit of a foreign language there, steveo..!

What the eff are ye on about, chappie..?

[Sue]

steveo Wrote:

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> De rigeur humourless offence taking

Typical stereotypical crap

[Alan Medic]

steveo Wrote:

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> De rigeur humourless offence taking

Explain the humour then? I consider I have a good sense of humour.

[Alan Medic]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> steveo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you've ever tried to do a deal with an

> Irishman

> > over a car, tractor, house, horse or gram of

> > speed, you'll be familiar with all the

> posturing,

> > bullying, leaving the room, coming back in

> again,

> > foul language, threats of violence and general

> > wailing and gnashing of teeth with which it is

> > accompanied.

> >

> > What you don't do is quickly agree a price,

> shake

> > hands and leave the room happy... either of

> you.

> >

> > There's a very long way to go yet

>

> An Irishman? I'm missing the context here. Please

> enlighten me as I'm unfamiliar with your

> description.

Still waiting steveo.