Floodlights planning application on Alleyns astro turf pitch

[murphy]

I noticed that Alleyns School have put in a planning application for 8 floodlights on their sports pitch. Last time they did this there was a huge campaign mounted against it and a meeting at St Barnabas Church attracted huundreds. Not heard any complaints this time, are people aware of the application?

I understand the initial application was for early evenings and mainly - not exclusively - school use. I wonder how long it will be before Alleyns start offering the facility for hire and ask for extended hours so the pitch can be used until 9pm every night?

[DJKillaQueen]

TBF what mattees is the type of floodlighting used. There are many types of downward pitch lights that don't cause neighbouring light pollution beyond that of street lighting.

[bob]

Murphy

I remember it well the meeting was packed and we stoped the lighting on light pollution.

Bob S

[DJKillaQueen]

Like I said they can shield light pollution easily. It's up to them to find a proposal that does that.

[vesti]

Point taken re light pollution and downward pitch lights. Bit concerned about probable increased use of Alleyns pitches in the evenings - noise, traffic etc. Friend of friend thought there was a leafleting campaign to enlist support against the scheme. Probably didn't extend as far as us. Anybody have the details of the neighborhood organisation who leafleted?

[murphy]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> TBF what mattees is the type of floodlighting

> used. There are many types of downward pitch

> lights that don't cause neighbouring light

> pollution beyond that of street lighting.

Lighting has got better but still makes an impact. You can see the glow from the Dulwich College pitches from the Court Lane entrance of Dulwich Park. You can see the lights from the pitches behind Dulwich Hamlet from the JAGS Sports Club entrance. To call that the equivalent of street lighting is ridiculous.

The last time Alleyns tried this they wanted to hire out the pitches until 10pm every night and they employed experts to say there would be no light pollution.

This time they have been more subtle ...we only real want it for an hour or so, in the winter...for the children.

But the planning also states it is not exclusively for school use. Once Alleyns have the lights in it then becomes easier for them to extend the opening hours to later in the evening.

Alleyns, first with the astro turf pitch and Pavillion (which they tried hiring out for private parties), then the new arts block are constantly eating into Metropolitan Open Land. What was once a fantastic building is now being spoilt by over development.

[bob]

Well said Murphy

Last time it was discoverd that the lights would have been 3 times higher than a doubel decker bus.

Stuff the lights this is just the first stage with much worse to come.

Bob S

[duncanm]

Alleyns astroturf is only useable in daylight hours,this is a terrible waste of a local resource.What is the problem with floodlights,it would probably be up to 10 at the latest.I really cant see the problem.

[murphy]

duncanm Wrote:

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> Alleyns astroturf is only useable in daylight

> hours,this is a terrible waste of a local

> resource.What is the problem with floodlights,it

> would probably be up to 10 at the latest.I really

> cant see the problem.

Alleyns astro turf is a waste of resources, as are most of the sports facilities at Alleyns. They got the planning application in for the astro turf saying it would be a great community facility and also that hundreds of local people who were members of Alleyns Sports Club would benefit. Alleyns then closed the sports club.

As far as I am aware apart from a hockey club no part of the community gets to use the astro turf pitch, or the football pitches, or the cricket pitches, or the tennis courts. Therefore the only beneficiary of fllodlights is likely to be Alleyns, not the community.

Duncan, you ask what is the problem with floodlights until 10pm? As you work at Dulwich Sports Club I suggest you walk over to the houses on Turney Road and ask them if they would like a full size astro turf pitch at the bottom of their garden with 15m floodlights on until 10pm at night. Do you think they might see the problem?

[bob]

What Murphy said.

Bob S

[Townleygreen]

murphy,

I am sure you are wrong. The astro can be booked by community groups, as can many of the other facilities, like the new theatre. St Barnabas used the school's hall for a while this year until they got the church hall to do the job. While the building work has been going on at the church.

The school's website mentions

"The Facilities for the Community programme, provides use of Alleyn's facilities at little or no cost to groups, schools and individuals who would not normally be able to access such facilities. The School currently supports approximately 29 local groups, 8 local schools (hosting school sports days, arranging swimming lessons, science clubs). The programme also includes Spanish and Mandarin; Chess tutoring; sailing instruction; ?Woodcraft Folk' and ?Red Thread' youth groups."

No doubt some of this might be the usual puff, but some of it is presumably true!!

[duncanm]

There are floodlights at Dulwich sports club and Alleyn old boys club, so I imagine the people of Turney And Burbage road have learnt to live with it.Community groups cannot use the astroturf at Alleyns in the evenings because they dont have floodlights.

[murphy]

Townley Green - I have tried twice to ask for a long term booking to use the sports facilities, told they would get back to me, they never did, despite me chasing them.

There is some community use but Mandarin, Chess tutoring, sailing instruction and woodcraft folk are not exactly aiming for a wide target market are they! They let local schools use the grounds for the last week of the summer term (when Alleyns has already closed) for sports days.

If they really wanted to show community spirit they could let schools and clubs have some use of their cricket and football pitches (which wouldn't require floodlights) or how about at Easter getting a charity in to run a sports programme for disadvantaged kids making use of their facilities. Well they don't do that because there is a private profit-making company using the facilities.

Remember private schools have to now prove that they are of "public benefit" and desrerving of the tax breaks that charitable status brings so Allyens pretty much has no choice but to allow some access, but a "community programme" really?

Duncanm - Aware of a small tennis area with floodlights, but not a full size football pitch with 15m high lights. Perhaps people who live there would like to comment on if its an issue for them?

[grumpydad]

As a resident who's house over looks the school there is currently a large amount of light pollution emitted from the school each night, this will just make it worse. I would suggest if they were to do the flood lights they should first of all do a review of their current light pollution and work within this, currently the school is lit up like a Christmas tree every night. Secondly as highlighted previously noise. Last night there was a lot of noise from partying pupils which carried across the field and disturbed my evening, first when putting my son to bed and secondly whilst sitting in the garden. If there was football/hockey every night the quality of life and peace enjoyed by neighbouring residents would be destroyed.

[PAJournoTrainee]

Hi everyone,

I'm a journalist working (and living) in the area, and was wondering whether any of you would like to get in touch with me on this issue. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts - especially if you expect to be directly affected by the floodlights if permission is granted.

My email is [email protected]

Should you drop me a line, it would be great if you could leave a phone number on which I can reach you, and a time (either today or over the weekend), when it would be most convenient to talk.

Many thanks,

Luke.

[bob]

Is any thing being done to stop this or are we just going to sit back and role over.

Bob S

[murphy]

bob Wrote:

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> Is any thing being done to stop this or are we

> just going to sit back and role over.

> Bob S

Contact your local councillor or the councillor's for the local ward which is Village and ask them to forward any objections to the relevant planning people.

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[Huguenot]

The only complaint here that seems legitimate is about noise pollution.

I can see how evening sports might make it hard for families with children to get them into bed.

I can't see how light pollution has any legitimacy. We all live on well lit roads in a bustling city. If you want darkness put up blinds.

'Partying people' has nothing to do with sports floodlights, it's a question of ensuring that the use of the facilites remains for what was originally intended.

If the school has an obligation to make facilites available to the community then it's simply a question of reviewing this and providing documentary evidence that this has taken place. It has nothing to do with floodlights.

The issue about a company paying for use of the facilities over Easter is also a complete irrelevance. They are prefectly entitled to do this if they want. If a charity for 'disadvantaged kids' wants to use the facilites then they should make an approach to the school and see what accommodation could be negotiated.

There's no reason why the school should be setting this up. They're a school, not a charity for 'disadvantaged kids'.

Either way, it's got nothing to do with the floodlights.

Some of the people on this thread just seem to be having a go at Alleyns for anything they can think of.

[James Barber]

The planning application is 11/AP/0495.

The lighting report appears to suggest one nearby property 24 Townley Road will have light pollution of between 1 and 2 LUX with the pitch being lit to 500 LUX.

NB. the same report suggests pavement light levels of between 2 and 10 LUX (from memory).

I believe the sports pitches are on Metropolitan Open Land which would mean if 3 objections to this scheme were received the main Southwark wide planning committee would decide whether permission were granted or refused.

Sadly local ocuncillors wouldn't get to decide. I've been asking to change the scope so that such schemes on MOL are decided by local Dulwich Community Council planning committee.

[EDfor]

Still just time to object - 12th is closing date for formal objections - but you can still lobby your councillors !

Do it!!

[murphy]

Huguenot wrote - I can't see how light pollution has any legitimacy. We all live on well lit roads in a bustling city. If you want darkness put up blinds.

Absolutely laughable response, the answer to floodlights opposite your house is to put up blinds! The location is not a bustling city. Townley road is a very quiet suburban road, on the edge of a conservation area surrounded by Metropolitan Open Land. An area according to Southwark Plan 2007 Planning Document "A suburban area where the existing character and form of buildings is maintained. The area's large open spaces will be protected. New development will not make parking and traffic congestion in the area worse.''

I am not having a go at Alleyn's for anthying I can think of, others had stated not having floodlights was a waste of resources and praised Alleyn's community programme. I responded that Alleyn's don't make full use of their current resources and are not really that active in their community programme but manage to tick a couple of boxes to help prove their charitable status. Some of the comments may be/seem a little off topic but Alleyn's have continually shown that their desire to expand their school facilities on a somewhat restricred site has come at the lost of Metropolitan Open Land. It seems fairly reasonable for local residents to object to this.

[BrandNewGuy]

I live near Alleyn's, so checked out the application, where it states:

"The lighting will be operated from 1st October to no later than 31st March and will not be needed after 6.30pm." I wonder why "be up to 10 at the latest" was mentioned by duncanm above...

If the dates and times mentioned in the application are strictly adhered to (and the lights are as 'efficient' as stated in the application), I don't see a great deal of inconvenience to local residents in terms of light pollution, getting small children to bed and so on. Or am I missing something?

[treehugger]

Thanks for investigating BrandNewGuy, it's nice to have the facts.

[Jeremy]

Someone actually checking the facts before complaining? Whatever next!

[Huguenot]

"laughable [...]the answer to floodlights opposite your house is to put up blinds"

erm yes. Exactly that. Why is this laughable? You don't say?

We had a streetlamp directly outside our house in Crawthew that was on all night (rather than just until 6.30pm). I put up blinds.

No tantrums, no barely contained fury. I just put up blinds. My blood pressure remained stable and I was a happy man.

Metropolitan land acquisition is another issue. There's a good reason to protest. Floodlights until 6.30pm? No. Can't see it. I think that's laughable.

Alleyns is a school, not some kind of rapacious evil empire.