Willow Armed Robbery

[Keef]

Er, not sure why Kingston would spring to mind, I was thinking more Lagos (read the news!).

Of course there are problems starting at home, I don't deny it, and I'm not having anyone suggest that I'm blaming all our problems on immigrants, I've always been pro-immigration. However, in several high profile cases recently, the people have been from abroad, and have used the "disrespect" excuse.

[Jamie]

I was discussing this with an Indian gentleman whilst getting my car fixed the other day and he put me right and said it has less to do with race, it is only that you hear about it more when it involve black communities. Apparently happens in West London a lot too and obviously there are a number of other places all over London that are the same.

List of possible reasons why things are like this (instincts rather than fact necessarily)

This affects everyone!

Poverty

Education (lack of)

State of families today

Drugs (read freakonomics....very interesting)

A general lack of discipline and respect for elders

A culture that is obsessed with wealth accumulation

TV....people don't communicate with each other

The fact that adults are scared of kids. Yes they can be dangerous but you cannot be scared of them. The boundaries have gone and they know it. (lots of really interesting reality TV programmes that show this - The one occasional good thing about TV)

Nothing for teenagers to do

So much anger and no one to help people deal with it

What do we do? What do young people want us to do? The "pretend" police cannot do anything and kids know it. They also know that the jails are full and they can pretty much get away with anything.

[shambles]

perhaps young people should be shown images of gun crime victims - then meet their grieving families and friends face to face to hear how gun crime has devastated their lives. perhaps this would take some of the 'glamour' out of the whole gangsta style culture and inject a serious dose of reality?

[Guest]

Jamie Wrote:

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it has less to do with race,

> it is only that you hear about it more when it

> involve black communities.

>

Don't know about that, Jamie.. in fact I'd say general consensus is exactly the opposite. Everyone remembers the young white father in Canning Town who got murdered recently, or the white Lawyer from North London on his way home with his wedding plans. There weren't many column inches for the black murder victims on the same day (there were some, as it happened).

The reason why the current murders of black boys is getting attention is precisely because they are boys. If they'd been 20 or 30 years old none of us would be any the wiser.

[Jeremy]

shambles Wrote:

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> perhaps young people should be shown images of gun

> crime victims - then meet their grieving families

> and friends face to face to hear how gun crime has

> devastated their lives. perhaps this would take

> some of the 'glamour' out of the whole gangsta

> style culture and inject a serious dose of

> reality?

Yeah, but that's the same principle as showing TV images of victims of car accidents, drug abuse, etc. And I don't think that really works... people still drink & drive, do drugs, etc...

[Guest]

actually bob the recent spate in gun crime into south London can be almost exclusively attributed to the afro-carribbean community... should we ignore that too? yes these things happen in every community, but why cant we get away from political correctiness here and say yes there is a problem in the black community, and yes it is damaging areas in parts of south London, is that really so difficult? no wonder nothing gets done, lets all play the hard done by card and pretend nothing is happening and that journalists and other organisations are anti-black or whatever...these poor criminals are obviously being persecuted and therefore have a right to carry a gun or rob a shop... get in the real world..

[Mark]

If you knew about Operation Trident 'david', you would know that, in the Police's own words, "Trident was set up in 1998 to help bring an end to a spate of shootings and murders among young, black Londoners." Hmmm, I can't see them saying it's not a black issue there.

In the real world that you mention, people already know about the issues you talk about, perhaps you should pay it a visit sometime and make some suggestions towards solutions.

[spadetownboy]

Mark Wrote:

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> Yesterday as I was riding home from work on my

> scooter, I was coming up behind a car stopped at

> traffic lights and the front passenger threw his

> bottle of Lucozade (orange flava) out the window.

> Now I always stop, pick up the litter and politely

> give it back to the person in the car, or if they

> ignore me I throw it in the backseat. Sometimes

> they're really apologetic, sometimes they act like

> I've spat in their face, but yesterday, as there

> were three black guys in a Mercedes I decided not

> to. I don't like having to make that decision

> because I felt my well-being (and ability to

> attend a Valentines meal at Le Moulin which was

> great by the way) would have been under threat. I

> might be wrong and the passenger may have said

> "sorry, thank you for pointing out my error I must

> remember not to do it again" but my instinct said

> let it go that time.

>

> My point? Why does the guy in the car not know

> that throwing a bottle out of a car is wrong? I

> know it's petty but it's wrong. "Gives people jobs

> dunnit" Has he never seen the advert where the

> bloke puts the bottle down on the wall and says "I

> put it out the way" and in the next scene a little

> girls crying as she's knocked it off the wall and

> cuts herself. Why can't young people be taught the

> basics of right and wrong and respect? Anything to

> do with this report by the UN that puts the UK at

> the bottom of the league table for child

> well-being across 21 industrialised countries? Do

> happy children have more respect for their

> surroundings and others or do they just stab with

> a smile? I've no idea but if anyone says it's

> because they don't have god in their life will

> have to explain it thoroughly on another thread.

>

> I saw the yellow board outside the bank last night

> too. Bank robbers don't usually do jobs in their

> own area which means he (or she) is probably not

> an East Dulwich resident. And as the bank's a few

> hundred yards from our Police Station can I

> presume that the police were there within minutes?

very sad state of affairs when a man is stereotyped because of the colour of his skin and the vehicle he drives.who do you return rubbish to,white middle class 4x4 drivers.what about white blinged up saxo/nova drivers,are they exempt as well?

[Mark]

I'm sorry that you read negative steroetyping that into my earlier comment but I was just drawing a picture of what happened. Who do I return rubbish to? Not three blokes in a sports car that could easily catch me that's for sure, it doesn't matter what colour it is.

[Guest]

david Wrote:

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> actually bob the recent spate in gun crime into

> south London can be almost exclusively attributed

> to the afro-carribbean community... should we

> ignore that too? yes these things happen in every

> community, but why cant we get away from political

> correctiness here and say yes there is a problem

> in the black community, and yes it is damaging

> areas in parts of south London, is that really so

> difficult? no wonder nothing gets done,

David, I'm not sure if you actually read my posting properly, but you seem to have entirely misunderstood my point.. Which was simply that black-on-black crime is deemed less newsworthy by the national press than other serious crime - except in extraordinary circumstances (such as the current spate of shootings)

[shambles]

you're right bob..usually the press treat shootings within the black communities (op trident investigations) with disdain as there is an undercurrent of 'the criminals are killing each other' which provokes little sympathy. these recent shootings are newsworthy because of the age of the victims. it is a real problem though across the various 'communities' in london. the latest victim wasn't black but he was very very young.

[Guest]

Added 10:30PM - The following message (i.e. this post by 'Daz') is by the same person who posted the message above under the name "david", please take with a pinch of salt - the Administrator

how about we stop sympathising with the black community and put pressure on them to put an end to this, we live in england not downtown chicago, and i am sick and tired of all this, who cares if the journalists dont report a load of underworld criminals killing each other i am sure most of us are full of sympathy!

[Guest]

Daz.. you're missing the point too.

If the press don't report it then nobody knows about it. If nobody knows about it, then it's not an issue. If it's not an issue then nothing gets done. And if nothing gets done then you might be the next one who 'cares' when your missus gets caught-up in the crossfire.

[Guest]

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> Added 10:30PM - The following post (Daz) is by the same

> person who posted the message above under the name

> "david", please take with a pinch of salt - the

> Administrator

Hmmm.. that would explain the equal lack of common sense in both postings.