New council vandalism in PR Park? (change of lighting)

[Lee Scoresby]

Are the faceless-nameless ones who run Southwark Council quietly uglifying yet another corner of poor old Peckham Rye Park?

Running down the slope from the top of the NE corner is a boulevard under mature plane trees. This is lit at night by a run of very beautiful lights, of the Victorian gaslamp style (tho they are electric). Extremely attractive. Yes, they are almost certainly repro - it makes no difference.

But what's this now? Southwark contractors have been busy since before Xmas drilling near their bases and installing new masts - see my attached photo. It's depressingly clear that these lovely old lamps are about to be ripped out, to be replaced - any bets? - by filthy-ugly inappropriate units that Southwark got as a job lot off the Bulgarian freeway authority.

And the same furtive trashing is happening all along the path across the Rye itself. But don't bother asking the workmen about it - they're obviously under strict instructions to say nothing. The one I spoke to was just surly.

No pretence of consulting park users or the local community, of course not. And not a peep out of our elected ward councillors. One can walk round the Park and the Rye itself and easily itemise a score of things that need doing. Just as one can easily imagine any number of improvements to this precious public space which would make it better for people in all sorts of ways. But that's not the jolly old game is it? The game is inventing things to do which create juicy contracts for private sector chums, even if it means trashing every last inch of OUR park and common. What a sick sick joke.

Lee Scoresby

[PippaD]

Although the Victorian style lights are wonderful to look at, in my opinion, they don't provide a lot of light to that particular pathway in dark afternoons/ night's and though the new ones can be considered "ugly", they will provide more light hence more security.

Just my view and sure others have their own.

[Mrs Y]

Its a shame the victoria style cannot be renewed with a similar looking lamtern to keep the character of the park, as has been done in other areas of consevation without losing the light levels.

[alice]

Whose decision and how much and why. That avenue at night was enchanting.

[kford]

It was/is enchanting. Those austere modern lights remind me of the lighting on the council recs I grew up with in the 70s, and could make the place look more foreboding at night.

There are plenty of modern old-style lights to choose from too:

http://www.dwwindsor.com/products/category/lighting/traditional-lighting/

[taper]

Probably in response to the muggings that have happened on that stretch. They cast better light one hopes.

[Calsug]

I saw these yesterday and almost posted something as well, totally agree the new ones look hideous so far and don?t hold out much hope for the finished product. Even if it is an increased lighting/safety issue you can get nicer looking ones!

Such a shame as Peckham Rye park is lovely but could be even better - the rat ridden pond really needs attention

[alice]

There were 5 crimes in Peckham rye in December 2017

There were 6 crimes in East Dulwich.

[Lee Scoresby]

Thanks all for these responses.

Better lighting helps deter crime in specific contexts but it is not the lazy, box-ticking panacea being hacksawed into place here. Online, one can find innumerable CCTV examples of muggings in broad daylight and well-lit streets. Here, semi-isolated inside a park, higher light levels by themselves are precisely no answer whatever, in the absence of properly resourced, more pro-active and imaginative policing. Tho I suggest we may all soon be CCTV surveilled each time we walk up and down this path.

Alice, I believe the late 2017 mini crime wave on Peckham Rye was caused by a single person or several people. That is, it's not a general problem. Not a justification for this egregious (but no doubt lucrative) vandalism.

Indeed, new lighting could be kept in character but - as I say - what's the betting it's pig-ugly. Where is the oversight and accountability of council managers and their contractors? I call them 'faceless-nameless' for good reason. And where the h**l are our local ward councillors? They are happy to prate on about the wonders of Peckham Rye when it suits them. The silence is deafening, no?

LS

[alice]

Yes. A link to the crime map would be good I just couldn?t do it. But it seems in nov there was 1 crime in the park other took place of course in the brightly lit street areas. So not sure where / what / about the mini crime wave you refer to

[Earl Aelfheah]

We don't need permalight everywhere. The sun rises and falls, get used to it. The existing lights are perfectly adequate. Does anyone really think that a brighter bulb is the answer to crime?

[DuncanW]

Lee,

I wouldn't be surprised that the workmen were surly if you addressed them in the same supercilious tone you wrote this post in.

[taper]

A few years I had cause to work with Southwark on replacing lights in a small park. The then extant lights were of similar design to the faux Victorian lights pictured here. They had though become unstable and the light they cast was poor and had, perhaps, contributed to some nasty criminal episodes in the park. So Southwark replaced them with modern lights. They were uglier. But the light they cast was much better and did make people feel more secure walking through the park at night.

[alice]

As far as I can find out there have been no crimes on that stretch.

[dbboy]

Nice to see how unnamed, unelected, bureaucratic, spineless, faceless pen pushers who think they know best, WASTING council tax payers precious resources throwing good money away when what is there is perfectly adequate and destroying our heritage into the bargin. Absolutely scandalous, don't expect anything less from these faceless council officers, who are supposed to be working FOR council tax payers, well a fat chance of that if this lighting replacement scheme is anything to go by. And oh it's coming to the end of the financial year, so little surprise resources are being squandered when we keep on being told their is not enough to go round.

Solution - maybe things would run smoother without some of these faceless pen pushers remaining in the council.

Just waiting for the barrage of abuse to come my way!!!!!!!!!

[taper]

Someone was mugged on their bike and reported it on this Forum. Pretty where the photo is taken from what I recall.

Those extant lights are repro by the way. Not sure better lighting is a waste of money necessarily.

[alice]

Yes who makes such decisions. Total waste of money.

There are many streets in nunhead with such lighting.

Def no link with crime

[Lee Scoresby]

Thanks Taper. Always appreciate input from people with relevant knowledge and experience.

However: Light levels and quality are actually perfectly fine. One can see clearly up and down the entire length of the slope; a newspaper can be read on much on the way. Making this light more intense, harsher and colder will achieve exactly nothing. It's a typical bogus 'solution'.

Again, there is absolutely no evidence these lights are 'unstable' - it is taking huge efforts to drill into their surrounds.

DuncanW, I don't usually respond to trolls - abuse condemns itself.'Supercilious' means acting as if believing oneself superior. I was perfectly polite to the workman. My posts on the EDF are often expressed vehemently. I am often critical of Southwark council particularly. I am dismayed at the way people put up with things they shouldn't. But my comments are always accurate and aimed to a positive outcome (whether that happens or not). Democracy, you know? 'Forum', you know? Are you perhaps, DuncanW, one of those outraged at, and terrified by, any challenge to 'authority'?

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi lee,

I'll look into this for you.

Renata

[hpsaucey]

Quite often walk here. Given that its a quiet footpath anyway I cannot really see that changing the lights will make much difference (except as Lee says to make the contrast harsher and stronger and actually probably therefore worse for vision) so agree with Lee that it would be a real shame of the current lights go.

Thanks for looking into this Renata - hopefully quickly, although its beginning to look like a fait accompli - for these ones anyway.

HP

[JohnL]

taper Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Someone was mugged on their bike and reported it

> on this Forum. Pretty where the photo is taken

> from what I recall.

>

> Those extant lights are repro by the way. Not sure

> better lighting is a waste of money necessarily.

Does that mean they're more energy efficient ?

[Calsug]

Indeed - the job sheet has been signed off and poles are in - I can't imagine anything will change now! Shame there isn't some sort of "Friends of Peckham Park" society or similar which is actually aware of what the council want to do with the park / give locals feedback before things get done.

For example the new playground - was there actually any consultation on what people wanted there? I've been walking past it and unless a lot changes soon there seems to be a lot more tarmac than I was expecting for the space and not sure how much kids play equipment will be there.

hpsaucey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Thanks for looking into this Renata - hopefully

> quickly, although its beginning to look like a

> fait accompli - for these ones anyway.

>

>

> HP

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Calsug,

there is a very active group, the Friends of Peckham Rye Park.

http://www.peckhamryepark.org/friends-of-peckham-rye-park/

Renata

[Calsug]

Oh! Have to admit I've lived here 7 years and never heard of them so feel rather stupid now!

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Calsug,

> there is a very active group, the Friends of

> Peckham Rye Park.

> http://www.peckhamryepark.org/friends-of-peckham-r

> ye-park/

> Renata

[hpsaucey]

Calsug Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Indeed - the job sheet has been signed off and

> poles are in - I can't imagine anything will

> change now! Shame there isn't some sort of

> "Friends of Peckham Park" society or similar which

> is actually aware of what the council want to do

> with the park / give locals feedback before things

> get done.

>

> For example the new playground - was there

> actually any consultation on what people wanted

> there? I've been walking past it and unless a lot

> changes soon there seems to be a lot more tarmac

> than I was expecting for the space and not sure

> how much kids play equipment will be there.

>

> hpsaucey Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > Thanks for looking into this Renata - hopefully

> > quickly, although its beginning to look like a

> > fait accompli - for these ones anyway.

> >

> >

> > HP

Have to agree. There were 'consultaiton' events at which plans were presented near the cafe and adventure playground by well-meaning designers. If there's a lot of tarmac then it doesn't really look much like the project images. See here: http://www.southwark.gov.uk/regeneration/nunhead/revitalise-peckham-rye-park-and-common

Hope its not the 'up hill' water play area all over again???

HP (a natural pessimist/cynic depending on your view)