Russian aggression - what to do?

[malumbu]

But not enough to kill 100s (or even yourself). Nasty stuff chlorine. Pilger is interesting in challenging 'fact'. I doubt very much that this time there will be an alternative explanation.

[JoeLeg]

Well now Russia is blaming us, saying we staged the whole thing to frame them.

(The UK, that is, not the EDF)

Now I wonder why they would want to start blaming us for stuff...

[SpringTime]

Well I love Russian people. Never had any issues with any I've met, nor any I've worked with. Am I just lucky?

[JoeLeg]

Like pretty much every nationality, I?d imagine the people are cool; it?s the actions of their (and our) leaders which are the problem, but again that?s true for every nationality.

[JohnL]

SpringTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well I love Russian people. Never had any issues

> with any I've met, nor any I've worked with. Am I

> just lucky?

Watched Russia Today this morning - they interviewed some Arsenal fans who said how much they loved Moscow and the Russian people when visiting for the match.

Might have been fake news of course as it was followed by a rant about UK and US :).

[Blah Blah]

Trump just annouced (at 2am UK time) that strikes were under way with the help of Frnace and the UK, in a speech so obviously written for him.

[JoeLeg]

Ah #%^*! Here we go. This is not good, on any level.

[JoeLeg]

Mattis has gone on tv to explicitly state the missiles were a ?one time shot?, and Russia is stating that none of them went into their ?air defence zones?, both of which is hopefully diplomatic code for ?its over? and ?we haven?t fired back...yet?.

Of course we still have Russia threatening retaliation of some form, though who knows what that will be.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Looks like a tightly calibrated cruise missile strike on facilities linked to gas warfare with a response of "outrage" from Moscow, but also some relief that it wasn't as destructive as it could have been.

It will be interesting to see if future analysis will see Trump's earlier sabre rattling bluster as being part of the strategy to ramp up the theoretical threat so that the actual strike can be positioned as being a moderate response.

[JohnL]

So the S400 remained Off as it were.

"the Russian Ministry of Defence said it had consciously not engaged its own defence systems."

[JoeLeg]

Given that it can supposedly drop the Tornado?s as soon as they?ve lifted off the runway in Cyprus, it?s nice to see someone showed restraint.

Here?s hoping we go back to the diplomatic wrangling now, though I have no idea what to do about Syria in general.

[Blah Blah]

It seems like a display of brinkmanship to me. I'm not sure who was most supposed to be more impressed, Assad or Russia. And it will make not one iota of difference to anything happening in Syria either.

[JohnL]

You just know Assad won't change anything.

[tomdhu]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I do worry we get a lot of gas from Russia now.

> Time to make sure you have an alternative

> 🤔

The UK gets less than 3% of its gas from Russia. Germany however gets 40% of its total energy from Russia . That's why Angela is totally silent and isn't getting involved in Syria and sanctions.

The UK can do without Russia's gas and if we get a bit of fracking we could keep Germany happy and get a better deal on Brexit.

[JohnL]

tomdhu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> womanofdulwich Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I do worry we get a lot of gas from Russia

> now.

> > Time to make sure you have an alternative

> > 🤔

>

> The UK gets less than 3% of its gas from Russia.

> Germany however gets 40% of its total energy from

> Russia . That's why Angela is totally silent and

> isn't getting involved in Syria and sanctions.

>

> The UK can do without Russia's gas and if we get a

> bit of fracking we could keep Germany happy and

> get a better deal on Brexit.

as long as it's in leave areas first. oops there I go ;)

[JohnL]

The above was a joke so ... :)

But we've been warned to expect a Russian Cyber attack within weeks

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/syria-news-latest-russia-could-launch-cyber-warfare-within-days-after-usled-military-action-expert-a3814226.html

[Alan Medic]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and Porton Down has now confirmed the country of

> origin cannot be established anyway.

>

> Russia is going to have a field day.

>

> https://news.sky.com/story/porton-down-experts-una

> ble-to-identify-precise-source-of-novichok-that-po

> isoned-spy-11315387

>

> "Other inputs were used to implicate Russia"

Now what I wonder?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44719639

[rendelharris]

Interesting take on this situation from the veteran journalist Seymour Hersh on The Media Show last week: https://www.rt.com/uk/431168-salisbury-skripal-seymour-hersh/

He might have added how impossible it would be to poison two people, of vastly different ages, weights, and states of health, with a nerve agent in their home in such a way that they both collapse at exactly the same time some hours later. Obvious that some bad, bad stuff has been going down in Salisbury and environs, but whether it's what we're told...noticeable after the initial period of aggression everything cooled down very quickly...

[JoeLeg]

While I respect Hersch, that?s an article from RT, and thus pretty suspect. I might try and track down the original broadcast.

That being said, yes, it?s now officially pretty weird.

[malumbu]

And while you speculate about conspiracy theories Russian involvement is leading to more deaths in Syria. The original purpose of my post is what can we as individuals do about the Russian authorities. My boycotting the world cup has gone unnoticed.

Well there are advantages of a totalitarian regime. The common people have been ordered not to fight, and respect diversity and even Peter Tatchell. Does amuse me that they have banned single person protests - imagine what that would have been like in the UK with anti-rave laws and the police arresting people body popping whilst listening to their Walkmans. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/peter-tatchell-moscow-arrest-russia-world-cup-2018-lgbt-gay-rights-protest-red-square-a8398691.html

[JoeLeg]

Some things are above our pay-grade. We can barely affect our own got, it?s pointless worrying about the Russian govt.

[Jenny1]

I think it all looks pretty straightforward. It would have been hard to clean up all residue of the Novichok and these poor people, living close to Salisbury and doubtless travelling there frequently, have simply been unfortunate enough to come into contact with it.

[rendelharris]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it all looks pretty straightforward. It

> would have been hard to clean up all residue of

> the Novichok and these poor people, living close

> to Salisbury and doubtless travelling there

> frequently, have simply been unfortunate enough to

> come into contact with it.

Just these two people and nobody else? So somewhere in Salisbury there's a residue of Novichok strong enough to put these two individuals in a coma, but nobody else, including people actually living in Salisbury, is affected? Come now!

[Earl Aelfheah]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it all looks pretty straightforward. It

> would have been hard to clean up all residue of

> the Novichok and these poor people, living close

> to Salisbury and doubtless travelling there

> frequently, have simply been unfortunate enough to

> come into contact with it.

Exactly this. I've heard a lot of conspiracy theory and suggestions that things 'don't add up'. The facts are that a Russian double agent was assassinated using a nerve agent - an incredibly reckless act because it is very difficult to contain such chemical weapons.

The fact that several months later some innocent party has inadvertently come into contact with said nerve agent, underlines what the government said at the time - such an attack puts the general public at risk of contamination. This is what makes the attack all the more outrageous.

It seems pretty likely that the Russian government sanctioned this attack. I don't buy any of the 'false flag' nonsense.

[rendelharris]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jenny1 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think it all looks pretty straightforward. It

> > would have been hard to clean up all residue of

> > the Novichok and these poor people, living

> close

> > to Salisbury and doubtless travelling there

> > frequently, have simply been unfortunate enough

> to

> > come into contact with it.

>

> Exactly this. I've heard a lot of conspiracy

> theory and suggestions that things 'don't add up'.

> The facts are that a Russian double agent was

> assassinated using a nerve agent - an incredibly

> reckless act because it is very difficult to

> contain such chemical weapons.

>

> The fact that several months later some innocent

> party has inadvertently come into contact with

> said nerve agent, underlines what the government

> said at the time - such an attack puts the general

> public at risk of contamination. This is what

> makes the attack all the more outrageous.

>

> It seems pretty likely that the Russian government

> sanctioned this attack. I don't buy any of the

> 'false flag' nonsense.

As above, just these two coming into contact with this residue months later with nobody else being affected? I don't believe it was a "false flag" either, but many people (including Seymour Hersh, above) have said that Skripal was involved in some pretty dodgy dealings with the Russian mafia. Russian mafia and government being closely intertwined, by no means impossible for private criminal entities to obtain a small supply of a nerve agent illicitly for their own purposes.

"an incredibly

> reckless act because it is very difficult to

> contain such chemical weapons. "

And yet somehow they managed to administer an airborne nerve agent in such a way as it only affected three people, in a crowded urban area, until three months later when it suddenly affects two more?