Tuesday 9th August - Any trouble affecting East Dulwich?

[titch juicy]

i cannot believe anyone with at least half a working brain cell would sign that petition- probably explains why there's so many signatures

if, by some miracle it does reach 100,000 sigs- it'll rightly get laughed down in parliament

[cmck83]

Send them to some newspapers and met police. There is also a "shop a looter" website, google should sort you out for an address.

[James Barber]

Hi KPR,

I'll find out.

[Loco Linco]

KPR Wrote:

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> Thanks Loco, It needs to be put out there as much

> as possible...

I've just seen this too: http://www.londonrioters.co.uk/

[edcam]

Completely agree with those who think removing what little income some of these people have is a terrible idea. You'd have to be mad to think that's a solution to these problems.

Frankly this "get 100,000 names and Parliament must debate it idea" is ludicrous. Take any strange/offensive/useless belief and it's quite simple to round up 100,000 internet users who are too lazy to write a letter or go to any effort to campaign for change. More than 100,000 would sign something online to deport immigrants/remove gay rights/reintroduce capital punishment/etc.

I'm all for identifying the perpetrators so that the authorities can deal with them though.

[cmck83]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Completely agree with those who think removing

> what little income some of these people have is a

> terrible idea. You'd have to be mad to think

> that's a solution to these problems.

>

> Frankly this "get 100,000 names and Parliament

> must debate it idea" is ludicrous. Take any

> strange/offensive/useless belief and it's quite

> simple to round up 100,000 internet users who are

> too lazy to write a letter or go to any effort to

> campaign for change. More than 100,000 would sign

> something online to deport immigrants/remove gay

> rights/reintroduce capital punishment/etc.

>

> I'm all for identifying the perpetrators so that

> the authorities can deal with them though.

They need to pay back the cost of what they have done in some way though. Sending them to prison will cost even more money, and we all know there aren't enough spaces. In another thread I talked about something like what the Criminal Assets Bureau do in Ireland. They seize personal possessions and auction them to take back what is owed to society ( in money terms). Too harsh or fitting concidering the looting? If a kid gets his BB and X box seized and sold it could teach them a lesson in empathy perhaps? Or not? What do you think?

[cmck83]

Apologies for spelling, phone's buttons are too small for my stubby fingers, obvs.

[Loz]

cmck83 Wrote:

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> If a kid gets his BB and X box seized and sold it could teach them a

> lesson in empathy perhaps? Or not? What do you think?

I think that he probably nicked them in the first place - and will go out an nick some replacements.

[cmck83]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> cmck83 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If a kid gets his BB and X box seized and sold

> it could teach them a

> > lesson in empathy perhaps? Or not? What do you

> think?

>

> I think that he probably nicked them in the first

> place - and will go out an nick some replacements.

Some kids, yes. Others who ended up going along with the crowd though; could work on them. Perhaps the way to ho for first time offenders?

[edcam]

cmck83 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> They need to pay back the cost of what they have

> done in some way though. Sending them to prison

> will cost even more money, and we all know there

> aren't enough spaces. In another thread I talked

> about something like what the Criminal Assets

> Bureau do in Ireland. They seize personal

> possessions and auction them to take back what is

> owed to society ( in money terms). Too harsh or

> fitting concidering the looting? If a kid gets his

> BB and X box seized and sold it could teach them a

> lesson in empathy perhaps? Or not? What do you

> think?

I think that's not a bad idea at all. I see no reason why these people should live in any form of luxury, particularly that gained through theft and criminal damage. Confiscation of assets is one thing but removal of basic benefits is another and would be utterly self-defeating. If unemployed then these benefits really should be dependent upon them carrying out a considerable amount of supervised community service.

[cmck83]

Peter Chapman, on Sky now, says under 18s are unlikely to be convicted of anything unless they pretty much murder or rape someone. Very annoying, as Cameron said he wanted to make sure those who did adult crimes would be done as adults. That's why I think there needs to be different ways to deal with things.

Could they even all be tagged I wonder? 800 arrested so far, that is a lot of tags..

[fuzzyboots]

Trouble is, honesty just doesn't pay the way the crime does....

As a parent, I try to make the negative or positive consequences of my children's behaviour as directly related to the causative behaviour in the first place. E.g. DS2 drew on the bannister in biro yesterday. Consequence: he had to scrub it off and I made sure it was all gone. He was not happy. I don't think he'll do it again.

If my younger two argue over toys (typically Nintendos, or similar) then they get removed until the behaviour and attitude has improved.

DS1: Left Uni in year 2 (didn't work!) and is now living with me. He has a London Minimum Wage, unskilled job (thank god he has one though!). He has to pay me rent every month and council tax. He is finding it very hard to make ends meet. I could let him off. He'd love me to. But I need the money in order to pay the rent and the council tax, so therefore, despite it hurting him, he has to do it. I'd make him do it anyway - I am NOT the bank of mum and I do NOT wish him to be an irresponsible potential partner for someone in the future!

In a nutshell, I'm ALL IN FAVOUR of the punishment fitting the crime. I think it's the best way to learn the lesson and make the choice not to transgress again.

TBH, I think many many parents ( of all socio-economic types) are frightened of upsetting their children and feel guilty about having to work long hours to pay the rent/mortgage, etc. If they were to spend more TIME with their children, giving them the message that a) they care and b) they always deliver both promises and threats, then I think much of the rioting could have been averted.

*Steps off soap box*

Trish

x

[Chick]

fuzzyboots Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Trouble is, honesty just doesn't pay the way the

> crime does....

>

> As a parent, I try to make the negative or

> positive consequences of my children's behaviour

> as directly related to the causative behaviour in

> the first place. E.g. DS2 drew on the bannister in

> biro yesterday. Consequence: he had to scrub it

> off and I made sure it was all gone. He was not

> happy. I don't think he'll do it again.

>

> If my younger two argue over toys (typically

> Nintendos, or similar) then they get removed until

> the behaviour and attitude has improved.

>

> DS1: Left Uni in year 2 (didn't work!) and is now

> living with me. He has a London Minimum Wage,

> unskilled job (thank god he has one though!). He

> has to pay me rent every month and council tax.

> He is finding it very hard to make ends meet. I

> could let him off. He'd love me to. But I need

> the money in order to pay the rent and the council

> tax, so therefore, despite it hurting him, he has

> to do it. I'd make him do it anyway - I am NOT

> the bank of mum and I do NOT wish him to be an

> irresponsible potential partner for someone in the

> future!

>

> In a nutshell, I'm ALL IN FAVOUR of the punishment

> fitting the crime. I think it's the best way to

> learn the lesson and make the choice not to

> transgress again.

>

> TBH, I think many many parents ( of all

> socio-economic types) are frightened of upsetting

> their children and feel guilty about having to

> work long hours to pay the rent/mortgage, etc. If

> they were to spend more TIME with their children,

> giving them the message that a) they care and b)

> they always deliver both promises and threats,

> then I think much of the rioting could have been

> averted.

>

> *Steps off soap box*

>

> Trish

> x

What is DS1 and DS2?

[fuzzyboots]

Darling Son 1

Darling Son 2

[Chick]

Thanks!