Hugo wants his gold back!

[LadyDeliah]

Hugo Chavez has recalled the 99 tonnes of Venezuelan gold held by British banks. Problem is, they only have 10 tonnes and that has been promised all over the place.

Are we seeing the impending collapse of our ponzi scheme financial system, or will the UK Govt make some bogus allegation against Chavez and seize his assets rather than pay the Venezuelan gold back (cos they don't have it anymore!)?

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?76499-Venezuela-demands-delivery-of-its-gold-deposits-from-Bank-of-England

[LadyDeliah]

And here is the official version!

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-18/chavez-emptying-bank-of-england-vault-as-venezuela-brings-back-gold-hoard.html

[Otta]

Cool, the transportation could lead to a fantastic heist movie.

[Michael Palaeologus]

He will only spend it on Russian arms - yet more of them.

We could supply him with lots of lovely shiny tanks and stuff. Miserable Blighter.

[Jeremy]

As mentioned in your second article - he's doing it so their gold can't be seized when the forthcoming international arbitrations don't go his way. You can't just boot out foreign businesses Mugabi-style, and expect to get away with it.

Also their cost of borrowing is very very high, and apparently they have to provide gold to China to guarantee their loans.

Let's not kid ourselves that Venezuela are the good guys with a rock solid economy.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if this was just the start of a rush for physical gold, as futures become undeliverable. There's a huge demand for gold right now, and supply can't keep up.

[katie1997]

LadyD - interesting thread, as ever :)

However, I don't hold out much hope for his aspirations for a state-owned gold mining industry, stamping out illegal mining and corruption. He's already well and truly fucked up the running of its natural resources; their oil industry astonishingly owes huge sums of money to companies such as Exxon.

Lots of workers in the energy sector are still waiting on their pay after months and the state-run company has lost much of its knowledge and talent over the years, is in steep decline, whilst shamefully many of the country (poor) sit in darkness. Let's see if he spends wisely on this...

[Jeremy]

katie1997 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> whilst shamefully many of the country (poor) sit in darkness.

High inequality, spiralling inflation, decreasing oil production capacities, a devalued currency.

So much for socialism.

[Brendan]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> High inequality, spiralling inflation, decreasing

> oil production capacities, a devalued currency.

>

> So much for socialism.

I thought the uk left socialism behind a long time ago.

[mockney piers]

You make the 'ponzi scheme', by which you mean fractional reserve banking, financial system sound like a bad thing.

It's what made our world possible, it's what has built our roads and bridges and hospitals and allowed entrepreneurs.

You seem to sound gleeful at the impending collapse of the international banking system.

Careful what you wish for.....

[titch juicy]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > High inequality, spiralling inflation,

> decreasing

> > oil production capacities, a devalued currency.

> >

> > So much for socialism.

>

> I thought the uk left socialism behind a long time

> ago.

Lol

[Jeremy]

boom boom

Seriously, the UK doesn't have food shortages, or 30% inflation (60% inflation of food and healthcare).

[Brendan]

Well it is easier to keep people subjugated if they?re fat. Perhaps Chavez should invest his gold in making pizza not war.

[Loz]

Well, if Gordon hadn't sold all our gold at a knock-down price a few years ago...

[Brendan]

Now why did we let him do a thing like that?

Oh wait money wasn't about solid assets but about speculation and we were all going to be rich forever!

[katie1997]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > High inequality, spiralling inflation,

> decreasing

> > oil production capacities, a devalued currency.

> >

> > So much for socialism.

>

> I thought the uk left socialism behind a long time

> ago.

LOL but key difference being the decline in UK oil production is down to the fact we've maximised those resources already hence natural decline. We have encouraged investment in what's left of the North Sea and West of Shetlands etc.

In Venezuela they still have massive proven reserves but Chavez, Ramirez, have not encouraged investment or talent into making the most of it. Dogged by strikes and financial mismanagement, companies unwilling to do business in their regulatory environment.

Sad to see this in beautiful Venezuela; shame they cannot follow Brazil, who out of that whole region, seem to be getting it right.

[LadyDeliah]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You make the 'ponzi scheme', by which you mean

> fractional reserve banking, financial system sound

> like a bad thing.

> It's what made our world possible, it's what has

> built our roads and bridges and hospitals and

> allowed entrepreneurs.

> You seem to sound gleeful at the impending

> collapse of the international banking system.

> Careful what you wish for.....

So when all the gold is recalled, and the UK banks can't honour their promises, what happens next?

Our financial system is based on smoke and mirrors. Chavez knows that we can't give him his gold back because we don't have it any more and the bit we do have has been promised to too many people.

What's that going to do to our credit rating?

He's calling the bluff of the Western financial system and I'm interested to see what the response will be.

Will they have to declare war on Venezuela rather than admit they've looted his gold reserves? Who will they go to for credit to wage war on Venezuela?

Interesting times we are living in.

[StraferJack]

I thought the gold was held across several banks, and that the 10 tonnes quoted sits with only one of them? So who is to say the other 98 isn't spread across the others?

[richardbach]

.

[mockney piers]

It's not based on smoke and mirrors, it's based on a collective understanding that has facilitated societal development for 400 years.

Without it there are no mortgages, no development loans, no capital investment, no nothing, there will only be lending from peter to paul via a middleman. If you think small business has it hard now, wait until banks cannot lend anything except depositors money!

In fact you're proposing an end to paper money which is just a promissory note, part of your smoke and mirrors; a return to money having an actual, not a conceptual value, so no more cards, cash machines etc.

You are, quite literally living in the middle ages with this.

[richardbach]

.

[MissNoodlesHats]

Oh of course Loz, and if Gordon had not snookered osbourne on the interest rates most of the nation would be on the streets, with Nick Cleggs blessing of course. Party before people of course.

[MissNoodlesHats]

Oh of course Loz, and if Gordon had not snookered osbourne on the interest rates most of the nation would be on the streets, with Nick Cleggs blessing no doubt . Party before the people of course, your cross, your riot, you take some responsibility it seems a word oft used.

[mockney piers]

liberal conspiracy - check.

Now all we need is the evils of the bbc.

[Jeremy]

richardbach, you broke character. Poor show. Although "Godron" gets the thumbs up, I like that.

No such problem for MissNoodlesHats.

Anyway, I don't think the physical delivery will be a problem on this occasion. The BoE should be fine, the banks can buy physical gold from the market to deliver if necessary. The real problem will come if this is just the start on a scramble for physical gold.

As for credit ratings - I thought these were based on a government's ability to pay bond coupons, but happy to be corrected if this is not the case.

[Brendan]

So if the demand for gold becomes significant and sustained will Britain prop up another compliant government in South Africa to secure supply?