Request for comment: Collapse of the U. S. A.

[Huguenot]

WTC 7.

For New Nexus and LD, all these people are liars, and there's massive conspiracy. That's because they're deluded.

The final report is the only plausible one:

"NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play an important role, nor did the structural damage from the collapse of the twin towers, nor did the transfer elements (trusses, girders, and cantilever overhangs). But the lack of water to fight the fire was an important factor. The fires burned out of control during the afternoon, causing floor beams near Column 79 to expand and push a key girder off its seat, triggering the floors to fail around column 79 on Floors 8 to 14. With a loss of lateral support across nine floors, Column 79 soon buckled - pulling the East penthouse and nearby columns down with it. With the buckling of these critical columns, the collapse then progressed east-to-west across the core, ultimately overloading the perimeter support, which buckled between Floors 7 and 17, causing the entire building above to fall downward as a single unit. The fires, fueled by office contents, along with the lack of water, were the key reasons for the collapse."

[LadyDeliah]

I posted a specific report on the economic problems facing the US. You dismissed this out of hand without any comment on the content, by stating that the editor of Russia Today doesn't believe what they put out.

Your source for this is a free rival news paper with a distribution of about 35,000, the Moscow Times who reported that the editor has increased the appeal of Russia Today by publishing controversial stories.

So who is believing what they want to here then?

[New Nexus]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> WTC 7.

>

> For New Nexus and LD, all these people are liars,

> and there's massive conspiracy. That's because

> they're deluded.

>

> The final report is the only plausible one:

>

> "NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play an

> important role, nor did the structural damage from

> the collapse of the twin towers, nor did the

> transfer elements (trusses, girders, and

> cantilever overhangs). But the lack of water to

> fight the fire was an important factor. The fires

> burned out of control during the afternoon,

> causing floor beams near Column 79 to expand and

> push a key girder off its seat, triggering the

> floors to fail around column 79 on Floors 8 to 14.

> With a loss of lateral support across nine floors,

> Column 79 soon buckled - pulling the East

> penthouse and nearby columns down with it. With

> the buckling of these critical columns, the

> collapse then progressed east-to-west across the

> core, ultimately overloading the perimeter

> support, which buckled between Floors 7 and 17,

> causing the entire building above to fall downward

> as a single unit. The fires, fueled by office

> contents, along with the lack of water, were the

> key reasons for the collapse."

Are the New York Fire Service liars as well, when they talk about WTC7 and explosions prior to the collapse.

Are over a thousand architects and engineers liars, when they have investigated WTC7 and have concluded that a proper investigation should be started to explore the demolition of WTC7.

Demolition firms all over the world ? your out of business, because all you need to bring down a 47 storey building into it?s own foot-print is start a little office fire.

There has been many examples of steel frame building that have been burning

ferociously for 10, 12 and 18 hours without collapsing

Ho yes, and lets not forget the BBC announced WTC7 collapse 20 minutes before the collapse. God the BBC have a great crystal ball, or was the script a bit early. dam that continuity department.

?Never let a crisis go to waste?

[resident25yearsED]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yay, Next Nexus is really on a roll here - now

> revealing himself to believe that the 9/11 attacks

> were fakes!

>

> You go, tiger.

>

> What next? Apollo moon landings?

if i was taken in by your dogmatism .... please at least go and do some research before being so confident..it's makeing you look foolish, which you're not full of really! i like your contributions.

[resident25yearsED]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Corbett Report isn't news, they've got faked

> pictures of George Bush snogging a male member of

> the House of Saud as their headline. Corbett's

> book is called "Essays on the New World Order".

> You don't get more mental conspiracy theory than

> that.

>

> If I want to get similar material I'd go to the

> Daily Mash, but I wouldn't be stupid enough to

> call it news.

>

> As for Russia Today - the government owned Russian

> overseas propaganda station? If you've reached the

> point where you feel that the Kremlin is more

> honest than, for example, the BBC you've truly

> lost the plot.

>

> But then we've got 20 pages of evidence for that

> already, so I wouldn't be surprised.

I think the question was "where do you get your news from?" from Lady Del..is it a secret Hugo?

[resident25yearsED]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LD, it IS a conspiracy theory - one of many.

>

> If you check my posts I've persistently come back

> with evidence that the assertions being made are

> unsubtantiated rubbish. All we've had from New

> Nexus are fabricated quotes, fabricated

> photographs, sweeping abuse, misunderstood

> concepts. Read the thread again and start counting

> them.

>

> The Editor of Russia Today (not the journo, the

> Editor) says that she doesn't believe the news

> they peddle. Yet you use it to cite support for

> this rubbish that New Nexus trots out.

>

> Your long term objective is to bring down society,

> based on a delusional conviction that this will

> benefit humankind. Your willingness to believe

> this rubbish is directly affected by this.

>

> I'm disappointed that you continually claim that I

> haven't back up my assertions - yet it has been

> myself and others who are the only ones to provide

> plausible references through this thread.

you really are becoming silly in your assertions Hugo. is something wrong?

[resident25yearsED]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The guy who had a hissy fit about the Russia Today

> 9/11 questions is a Torygraph journalist whose

> blog has a distinct anti-islamic feel to it.

>

> Hugo you are quoting opinion. Just because this

> guy didn't like the questions, does not mean that

> they should not have been asked, or that facts

> that don't appear to correlate with the official

> version shouldn't be examined.

>

> I have no idea whether 9/11 was as a result of

> Islamic extremists or the US government, but I

> don't trust the government because they have lied

> so much to their own people to do things that they

> would not get popular support for. So it wouldn't

> shock me if they did either allow it to happen or

> facilitate it in some way. I don't think the

> evidence is clear either way, so my mind is still

> open on that issue.

>

> Screaming that people are loonies and trying to

> shut down debate on an issue by calling it a

> conspiracy theory is not helpful and adds nothing

> to the debate.

>

> If someone is making false claims, you have the

> intelligence to look at the alleged facts and

> disprove those facts, so why don't you do that

> instead of making sweeping dismissals based on

> some kind of superiority complex.

I agree Lady D..to conspire to do something is not such an unusual thing..and it wouldn't suprise me at all to learn that governments manipulate situations to occur, even if it means carrying out attrocities or taking out others!..power corrupts and lose of power for the powerful can be like giving up narcotics

[New Nexus]

Santerme Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blimey, what next.....Obama's a Kenyan Marxist

> trying to destroy America?

>

> NN you are sinking fast!

no just warming up

[LadyDeliah]

I have a bit of light reading here for you Hugo. I'm sure you must be a fan of Political Philosophy, seeing as you are so knowledgeable and well informed :)-D

[TE44]

http://www.wanttoknow.info/911/black_eagle_trust_fund

And here's another.

[Annette Curtain]

My GOD

What next.......

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/birds-eye.jpg Captain Birdseye doesn't actually eat fish ?

Nette:-S

[DaveR]

LadyD, I read some of the musings of your political philosopher. I was particularly taken with this proposition:

"If we look to the year 1977, we find it to be especially important in the history of mankind. It is the year Charlie Chaplin died, a moment that that, to my mind, marked the end of a possibility for a kind of a humane and gentle modernity."

[mockney piers]

Plastic leaves......

Hojas etc

[Huguenot]

LD, this is tiresome. I've already stated that there is no doubt that both the US and many parts of the developed world have economic problems. There is also no doubt that there are some dickheads in positions of influence. Your 'news' story boils down to this, alongside a whole lot of ridiculous speculation plastered over the top.

I have also pointed out the solutions to these economic and political challenges, which are generally shared by government, are moderate in their execution and medium term in their delivery.

I have been at pains to point out that the apocalypse scenario the lunatic fringe paint, with water drained from our taps, the banks empty of money and the stores devoid of food is a ridiculous extrapolation of these challenges into a doomsday hysteria.

If despite all the information and insight that you have been offered you still believe that armageddon is the more likely scenario then no amount of rational information is going to swing your judgment.

The conversation then took a step into the ridiculous, as it became apparent that both yourself and New Nexus share conspiracy theories that fly in the face of every reasonable consideration. The idea that 9/11 was a massive false flag exercise involving the murder of 3,000 people and the demolition of national icons just to get rid of a few documents and win a few quid on the stock market is laughable.

That you believe a secret like that could actually be kept is testament to the loss of perspective that you are suffering from.

You have forgotten both what people are like, and in your hatred of organised society you have actually dehumanised the millions of individuals that work in finance, the public sector and politics. In reality they are just like you - enquiring and responsible, full of hopes, concerns, ambition and curiosity. This is not an environment within which massive conspiracies can be effectively executed.

To forget that is to enter a bizarre disassociative madness.

Finally you've now entered the last vestige of conspiracy theorists - that all the media are also in on the criminal conspiracy and that the literature and output from totalitarian states is more believeable than that from our own haphazard liberal democracies.

It's frankly ridiculous.

[resident25yearsED]

New Nexus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Huguenot Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > WTC 7.

> >

> > For New Nexus and LD, all these people are

> liars,

> > and there's massive conspiracy. That's because

> > they're deluded.

> >

> > The final report is the only plausible one:

> >

> > "NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play

> an

> > important role, nor did the structural damage

> from

> > the collapse of the twin towers, nor did the

> > transfer elements (trusses, girders, and

> > cantilever overhangs). But the lack of water to

> > fight the fire was an important factor. The

> fires

> > burned out of control during the afternoon,

> > causing floor beams near Column 79 to expand

> and

> > push a key girder off its seat, triggering the

> > floors to fail around column 79 on Floors 8 to

> 14.

> > With a loss of lateral support across nine

> floors,

> > Column 79 soon buckled - pulling the East

> > penthouse and nearby columns down with it. With

> > the buckling of these critical columns, the

> > collapse then progressed east-to-west across

> the

> > core, ultimately overloading the perimeter

> > support, which buckled between Floors 7 and 17,

> > causing the entire building above to fall

> downward

> > as a single unit. The fires, fueled by office

> > contents, along with the lack of water, were

> the

> > key reasons for the collapse."

>

> Are the New York Fire Service liars as well, when

> they talk about WTC7 and explosions prior to the

> collapse.

>

> Are over a thousand architects and engineers

> liars, when they have investigated WTC7 and have

> concluded that a proper investigation should be

> started to explore the demolition of WTC7.

>

> Demolition firms all over the world ? your out of

> business, because all you need to bring down a 47

> storey building into it?s own foot-print is start

> a little office fire.

>

> There has been many examples of steel frame

> building that have been burning

> ferociously for 10, 12 and 18 hours without

> collapsing

>

> Ho yes, and lets not forget the BBC announced WTC7

> collapse 20 minutes before the collapse. God the

> BBC have a great crystal ball, or was the script a

> bit early. dam that continuity department.

>

> ?Never let a crisis go to waste?

I have been doing some research (lahdeedah) and it does appear that the experts donot believe that a fire brought down WTC7. Why would Hugo not find this even curious, the experts opinion here? Have we not been hoodwinked enough by governments and the (fallible) human beings that run them, to not take what they say at face value?

[Annette Curtain]

resident25yearsED Wrote:

> I have been doing some research (lahdeedah) and it

> does appear that ...............

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/TS3fflBSfGI/AAAAAAAASvw/DGYxNzhwMkM/s320/troll.jpg

Indeed, though spare us please.

NETTE(6)

[LadyDeliah]

Good morning campers.

Hugo you are still not using specifics to argue against what has been said so how can anyone respond in any meaningful way? When dismissing the Russia Today report you concede the facts but then make a general dismissal about hysteria. What hysteria? What particular parts of the report are you referring to? Where is your analytical breakdown and rebuttal?

In response to your remarks about the insanity of believing conspiracy theories or that the people running things are just like you and I, I will post some examples of known cover-ups and hideous things tge governments have done later as I'm on my phone now and can't get links to them all. I don't think everyone would necessarily have to be in on a conspiracy for it to work. Disinformation and people's general unwillingness to rock the boat Coukd be relied on. And fear of arrest for disclosing secrets etc if someone didn't comply.

The political philosophy thing was a bit of a joke by the way. It's on a site written by a load of artists and has some interesting ideas, but is a bit too ethereal for my tastes.

[Scylla100]

Posted by: Huguenot Yesterday, 12:37PM

Have your conspirancy theories plumbed new depths with the claim that Keynesian Economics was a communist attack on the USA?

No my dear, I'd rather have Keynes then an Ayn Rand loving Conservative/Lib Dem Coalition any day.

I remember Paul Krugman ranting in the New York Times that Obama's stimulus wouldn't work because it was too small. And our Dave wouldn't even consider a version of Keynes lite. Maybe it would be a good thing - I'm inclined to look favorably on Roosevelt's economic policies in the US Depression, I'm not convinced it would work but it can't be any worse then austerity measures.

You guys there is no organised conspiracy because there doesn't need a be a conspiracy. How long ago did Rome collapse and historians are still debating the question of exactly why it went down, and nobody agrees on one theory or cause.

Dare I say we're in a sticky part of our collective Odyssey?

Scylla ;-)

[katie1997]

The Loch Ness monster is real. FACT.

I have seen darling Nessie with my own eyes.

[Huguenot]

"I have been doing some research (lahdeedah) and it does appear that the experts donot believe that a fire brought down WTC7"

*sighs*

yes, resident... that's exactly what I said in my own post, which you didn't read, because like other conspiracy theorists you don't want to hear the truth. It's too boring for you.

Nobody is calling the Fire Departments or Engineers liars.

A compreshensive review and investigation of the WTC7 collapse have taken place, have found no evidence of demolition, and nothing to support the conspiracy cause. There is no 'series of detonations' in the seismic record as the loonies claim.

Demoliton companies all over the world could repeat the collapse if they repeated the incident - which would include (in no particular order:

- The explosive removal of 25% of the building over 10 floors on the south side (caused by the twin towers colapse)

- The collapse of east side penthouses pulling down the west side of the building after themselves

- The unsual loads the damaged columns were initially bearing (approx 2,000 sqft of flooring each) such that one failed column could bring down the entire structure

- Trusses on the 5th and 7th floor transferring almost the total weight of the failed south face to the other faces to exceed load bearing capacity

- A high pressure diesel fire lowering load bearing capacity on the 5th floor.

It is entirely normal that different buildings, constructed differently, with different load distributions and stresses would be able to sustain fires for different periods of time.

The BBC have made clear that they simply made a mistake when they reported this incident. It isn't the first mistake they've made, and won't be the last - does no-one remember all the mistakes in the coverage of 7/7? They thought other stations had been targeted. It wasn't because they knew it was going to happen, they just got it wrong. It's just what happens in high pressure emergencies.

This is the only rational way of approaching this series of events, but the loonies will never agree.

The only response to this post will be New Nexus to claim this is all lies made up by the government.

[Huguenot]

LD, the one thing that all your cover-ups and hideous behaviour of governments will have in common is that if a cover up was attempted, it didn't work, otherwise you wouldn't know about it.

This is because cover-ups on the scale you are claiming just don't work.

[katie1997]

Ever wondered just how much it has cost us, the people, to fly Elvis to the Moon (!)

[Annette Curtain]

????'s has Shergar locked in a stable just-off Upland Road.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00000/shergar_771c.jpg

http://www.lordlucan.com/lucan_4_small.jpg "Really ? don't be silly..."

" Ladies & Gentlemen. Since 1977 I have been working as "Ronald Mc Donald " http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/ElvisPresleyAlohafromHawaii.jpg

[katie1997]

And the return journey from the Moon, directly (no changes!!) to the Bermuda Triangle must cost a fortune too. (!)

If anyone has the correct figures, I'd be extremely grateful.

[ibilly99]

http://www.tuesdayschild.com/emails/tPF/Customers/DieThread.jpg