Request for comment: Collapse of the U. S. A.

[ibilly99]

http://www.fotoschudelhalm.com/picture_anna/aktuell/buch_Never-Ending-Journey.jpg

[Scylla100]

@Mockney Hey! Conflated? I'm not conflating, maybe over simplifying but betcha by golly gosh, (sorry for the strong language) definitely not conflating, the dementia hasn't completely taken me over...yet. Or anthropomorphising the bond markets for that matter (can I turn that word into a verb, too late I've done it now.) Yet, now that you mention it, I kind of like the idea. The bond markets, where every country has to borrow money, has turned from a cute little house cat which accepts crap interest rates into big out of control tiger, grrrrrr. We're in a big cage with the tiger and its hungry, wants some dinner and the zoo keeper isn't around to feed it.

The evidence appears to show the economy is contracting. Forgive me for stating the bloody obvious, but when a company or government borrows money they have to pay it back with compound interest. You pay the interest back with profits, company profits or in the case of a government increased tax revenue. So your car company borrows money but sells more cars (or more profitable cars) and makes more money and pays back the loan with interest. Or the government builds some infrastructure which makes their citizens more productive (they build a road or a public transport system) and more productive citizens pay more taxes and the government pays back the loan with interest. You can effect a temporary fix to deal with the woop and warf of ups and downs in the system, higher taxes, lower spending (or lower taxes, lower spending if you're a neo conservative.) Or you cut employees from you company and that takes you profit margin up. This isn't growth, its a temporary fix.

My question is, how in the world are companies and governments like ours ever going to make enough in company profits or turn enough citizens into productive tax payers in order to pay back the loans we've taken out and more importantly the interest on the loans? I don't mean we have to pay the loans off completely, I know money is loaned into existence and government debt is not the same as personal debt but the entire system is predicated on growing enough to pay back the compound interest and we aren't growing. Or technically, if you look at government statistics, not growing enough.

I get the idea the UK government is treating the economy like a stalled car with a dead battery. They're attaching jumper cables to the batteries by cutting spending and raising taxes and lowering interest rates hoping it will spark the economy into staring up again. Unfortunately it looks like car has died and it isn't going to start again.

Scylla

[Huguenot]

UDT, I didn't think you were Rick Channing, and I wasn't trying to get you banned. I know who you are. Take a chill pill.

If you don't want people to debate who you are then don't post under multiple usernames sounds pretty simple?

New Nexus is there again with 'Plead the fifth'. I've got no idea what that is - so it's clearly someone either American, or either pretending or obsessed with America. The only person who did that recently was Rick Channing, but it doesn't seem American enough for him.

[ColdTurkey22]

If American is not enough for him, then why he is sobessed with America.

They thought the administrator don't allow them to use the same names without

realising they are not allow to use it at all.

Is that true !

[New Nexus]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> UDT, I didn't think you were Rick Channing, and I

> wasn't trying to get you banned. I know who you

> are. Take a chill pill.

>

> If you don't want people to debate who you are

> then don't post under multiple usernames sounds

> pretty simple?

>

> New Nexus is there again with 'Plead the fifth'.

> I've got no idea what that is - so it's clearly

> someone either American, or either pretending or

> obsessed with America. The only person who did

> that recently was Rick Channing, but it doesn't

> seem American enough for him.

Just as apostrophe is not my strong point.

Subtlety is clearly not your forte.

Let me break it down for you.

It is called guilt by association. = paranoia.

Has anyone seen The Crucible lately? = McCarthy hearings.

Plead the 5th = again McCarthy hearings.

The good thing about living on planet earth now is we do not have to think in single dimensional UK, US, RU, AU, CN. Ideologies.

[New Nexus]

And as the villagers played hunt the thimble, the great monolith churned greater and greater toxins into the markets,

September 23rd do they, don?t they, give Greece more debt. I?d like to say bailout, but I know that to be false.

[LadyDeliah]

I call you Hugo and I'm definitely not Undisputed Truth!

We've played football at the same time and were 2 different people, So I know he's not me, plus he's a dude and I'm not!

[TE44]

I take it from the knowledgable posts on this thread there may be no tolerance for people who don't have

the same understanding of economics. I know many people who absolutely know that changes they believed would

probably happen in there grandchildrens life have fast forwarded. Economy to many is a created illusion,

a language on its own, to stop your everyday person understanding how corrupt it is. There seems to be an agreement

with all posters on how corrupt it is.

NN I'm sure many are playing hunt the thimble, some may have the needle to stitch up the old and make something new.

[New Nexus]

The ?needle? is called Prompt Corrective Action Act and FDIC.

It was Timothy Geithner?s and Hank Paulson?s duty to enforce these acts, but given they are part of the banksters brigade of Goldman, they chose to ignore this act.

It really boils down to:

If I cheat and swindle then get caught, I get punished.

If banksters cheat and swindle then get caught, they get rewarded.

If we leave criminals in charge, the next hit is going to be much worst.

[TE44]

NN The people who hold the needle I'm speaking about recognise the criminals are in charge, and are trying

there best to create an alternative way of living, not everyone wants material wealth. I reckon if unemployed,

especially the young, were offered a chance to live and work the land, to learn of alternative energies and appreciate

nature, many would jump at the chance. I realise there are festivals that offer this chance, but again, at a price

many can't afford.

[mockney piers]

Nice utopian middle class pipe dream; to quote one of my favourite cinematic characters:

"Shiiit, you gotta be rich in the first place to think like that."

[New Nexus]

In a move that could either send BAC stock limit down overnight or send it soaring (we are still trying to figure out just what is going on here), the NYT has broken major news that the US is preparing to go nuclear on more than a dozen big banks among which Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank, in an attempt for Fannie and Freddie to recoup $30 billion if not much more. The lawsuit is expected to hit the docket in the next few days: "The suits stem from subpoenas the finance agency issued to banks a year ago. If the case is not filed Friday, they said, it will come Tuesday, shortly before a deadline expires for the housing agency to file claims." Now, taken at face value, this would mean that Bank of America can kiss its ass goodbye as unlike the Walnut Place litigation, this will take place in Federal Court where Article 77 is not applicable. Yet there is something that gives us pause: namely logic, captured by the following words: "While I believe that F.H.F.A. is acting responsibly in its role as conservator, I am afraid that we risk pushing these guys off of a cliff and we?re going to have to bail out the banks again,? said Tim Rood, who worked at Fannie Mae until 2006 and is now a partner at the Collingwood Group, which advises banks and servicers on housing-related issues." In other words: if the banks are sued, and if justice prevails, the end of the world is nigh and cue TARP 2 - XXX. Now where have we heard that argument over, and over, and over before.

Shorthand, do this to us and we will bring the system down

[Huguenot]

"It is called guilt by association. = paranoia."

Oh dear, back on definitions again are we? Please go and look up paranoia. The only thing Rick Channing was guilty of was being an arse, and you don't need 'guilt by association' to be guilty of the same charge.

"the criminals are in charge"

The usual rubbish. If you want to crap on about some imaginary and clearly unworkable rural utopia, be my guest, but to precede it with this silly insult as a justifcation simply demeans your intent. Stop playing to the gallery by circulating abusive prejudice.

"the US is preparing to go nuclear on more than a dozen big banks among which Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank"

Clearly you an unaware what 'going nuclear' is, but issuing a lawsuit for $30bn it isn't. The four banks you mention have combined annual profits well in excess of $30bn on their own, so the only likley outcome for the 'more than a dozen' you mention is that their dividend is slightly reduced for the year.

"I am afraid that we risk pushing these guys off of a cliff and we?re going to have to bail out the banks again,? said Tim Rood"

What do you expect him to say? That's his dividend we're taking away, and he's bound to have a moan right?

"In other words: if the banks are sued, and if justice prevails, the end of the world is nigh"

No, this is just your usual world of bollocks. If the banks are sued, a load of guys get reduced dividends and complain a lot. That's it. Nothing else.

"Shorthand, do this to us and we will bring the system down"

No, that's just your usual bullshit. Unable to find anyone to support your cause, you revent to making stuff up.

[mockney piers]

I can practically hear the crazies in their mountain retreats locking and loading their AR-14s and scanning the horizon for black helicopters as a result!!

[New Nexus]

Huguenot, you really are very badly informed. Your wonderland is dissolving, and you cannot abide the fact that your falsely conceived paradigm is collapsing.

Why not try and read the New York Time article in full ? then ponder on it?s implications, and not just vomit up your stupid number crunching game.

You are so badly informed, that you didn?t understand what pleading the 5th was.

[DaveR]

This is my prediction:

"There shall in that time be rumors of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia-work base, that has an attachment. At that time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer, and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock."

[New Nexus]

DaveR Wrote:

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> This is my prediction:

>

> "There shall in that time be rumors of things

> going astray, erm, and there shall be a great

> confusion as to where things really are, and

> nobody will really know where lieth those little

> things with the sort of raffia-work base, that has

> an attachment. At that time, a friend shall lose

> his friend's hammer, and the young shall not know

> where lieth the things possessed by their fathers

> that their fathers put there only just the night

> before, about eight o'clock."

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

[Voyageur]

NN, your writing style and somewhat unbalanced view reminds me of a 15 year old with a dictionary to hand.... you're not a 15 year old with a dictionary are you? (no offence to 15 year olds with dictionaries!).

[New Nexus]

Voyageur Wrote:

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> NN, your writing style and somewhat unbalanced

> view reminds me of a 15 year old with a dictionary

> to hand.... you're not a 15 year old with a

> dictionary are you? (no offence to 15 year olds

> with dictionaries!).

Comments on writing style and yet no comments on substance.

Pot and kettle, come to mind.

Does anyone here know what the (Prompt Corrective Action Act) is?

[mockney piers]

no YOU'RE a smelly poo. Touched you last.

[*Bob*]

New Nexus Wrote:

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> Does anyone here know what the (Prompt Corrective Action Act) is?

Is the pope Catholic?!

Well, put (in laymans terms - for those of a lesser mind) the Prompt Corrective Action is a US federal law mandating progressive penalties against banks that exhibit progressively deteriorating capital ratios. At the lower extreme, a critically undercapitalized Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)-regulated institution (i.e., one with a ratio of total capital / assets below 2%) is required to be taken into receivership by the FDIC in order to minimize long-term losses to the FDIC.[1] The motivation behind the law is to provide incentives for banks to address problems while they are still small enough to be manageable.

Ask me another - go on. Ask me.

[DaveR]

"Does anyone here know what the (Prompt Corrective Action Act) is?"

Yes.

[New Nexus]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> New Nexus Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Does anyone here know what the (Prompt

> Corrective Action Act) is?

>

> Is the pope Catholic?!

>

> Well, put (in laymans terms - for those of a

> lesser mind) the Prompt Corrective Action is a US

> federal law mandating progressive penalties

> against banks that exhibit progressively

> deteriorating capital ratios. At the lower

> extreme, a critically undercapitalized Federal

> Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)-regulated

> institution (i.e., one with a ratio of total

> capital / assets below 2%) is required to be taken

> into receivership by the FDIC in order to minimize

> long-term losses to the FDIC.[1] The motivation

> behind the law is to provide incentives for banks

> to address problems while they are still small

> enough to be manageable.

>

> Ask me another - go on. Ask me.

At last.

Can you tell me why (Prompt Corrective Action Act) was not implemented by Paulson nor Geithner, regarding the banks involvement in subprime, given that it was their duty to implement said Act

[*Bob*]

Well, in my view - Geithner, like Paulson, as President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York since October 2003, was one of those senior regulators who failed to take any effective regulatory action to prevent the crisis, but instead covered up its depth.

I would also add that he was supposed to regulate many of the largest bank holding companies in the United States. Far too many of these institutions are now deeply insolvent because the banks they own are deeply insolvent. The law mandated that Geithner and his colleagues place troubled banks in receivership long before they became insolvent.

Which begs the question, Nexus - Why are the banking regulators, particularly Treasury Secretary Geithner, continuing to disobey the law?

[New Nexus]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> no YOU'RE a smelly poo. Touched you last.

I?m glad my pot and kettle comment found resonance with you,

Might be time for you to adopt the fetal position, and have a little nap.