Is William Rose an organic butcher, as advertised?

[froggy]

Although I'm not questioning the quality of the meats sold at William Rose's, every time I ask if what I'm buying is organic, I receive the same reply: "No but it's free range".

Should the word "ORGANIC" feature so prominently on the storefront if only a couple of cuts are actually organic?

[womanofdulwich]

???how strange i dont go there as I dont buy organic meat- but I do buy free range- cant they make their minds up then? I thought all british meat was free range anyway - only chickens that suffer.

[RosieH]

you thought all British meat was free range? Really? Good gracious, no.

[DulwichFox]

What's the difference between organic and free range?

Organic will always mean that the animals have been able to free range, but organic also means a lot more. With free range products, there are no limits on the amount of birds that can be kept in a house. You can have tens of thousands of birds in a house,and as long as there are some pop-holes for the birds to go outside, they can technically be deemed as free range.

Full Report and short video of definition:-- Here..

Bit of an eye opener what Free range actually means..

Fox

[sugarmouse]

I got the same reply. My elderly neighbour had specifically asked me to buy her an organic chicken breast from there and when I asked to double check it was organic, they said the same thing - that it wasn't organic, only free range. Their website just says they specialise in 'free range and organic meat' which is ambiguous I guess as it can mean that some stuff is just free range and other stuff organic, not that all meat is free range AND organic... If you're really bothered, I guess you'll have to ask every time.

[katie1997]

froggy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Although I'm not questioning the quality of the

> meats sold at William Rose's, every time I ask if

> what I'm buying is organic, I receive the same

> reply: "No but it's free range".

>

> Should the word "ORGANIC" feature so prominently

> on the storefront if only a couple of cuts are

> actually organic?

Froggy, I cannot remember how prominent it is on the shop sign compared to the other words. But their website is clear that they are stockists of Traditional, Free-Range and organic meat, poiultry and game.

Perhaps it depends what time you are shopping there as to the availability of anything organic? It might just be that they do usually have it but later in the day its only free-range produce left?

Pretty sure there's been a forum discussion on this but may have been a while ago! (Only mention it as it may have the answers for you).

[elly]

I have to say - I once went to shop there - asked the same thing about their meat - only to be told - no its "free range" only organic for some things at the weekend.

I feel that the prices and their advertising is misleading and not everyone will ask - they just assume it is what is says on the box! From then on I refuse to shop there - there is a perfectly good non organic butcher in West Dulwich - tues-sat and an excellant organic mobile butcher at north cross road,ED and Beamish McGlue Deli in West Norwood

Of course no one is saying that William Rose provides bad meat - but it not "as Advertised"!

[womanofdulwich]

Scotch Meats on Rosendale Rd is a good butcher, and it does sometimes have free range chickens too.

[PHILLY]

i love william rose butchers the staff the meat it always tastes great to me

[RosieH]

I wonder that people are getting so het up when they haven't bothered to find out what "free range" and "organic" mean. They're two different things for crying out loud.

The shop front clearly says Organic and Free Range. They're not misleading anyone - it's hardly their fault if people are too idiotic to understanf basic terminology. Please don't go misrepresenting local shops as a way to disguise your own ignorance.

[womanofdulwich]

Rosie

Don't all British pigs sheep and beef have to free range? thats why i never buy danish. I thought poultry was the only thing that can be kept indoors? hence freerange/ farm?

[DulwichFox]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

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> Rosie

> Don't all British pigs sheep and beef have to free

> range? thats why i never buy danish. I thought

> poultry was the only thing that can be kept

> indoors? hence freerange/ farm?

Beef cattle - farming

Beef cattle are usually kept in one of two systems. On more ?extensive? grazing-based farms, animals are mainly kept in fields and may be housed for part of the year. It is these grazing systems that have helped to shape the landscape in many parts of the UK. Beef cattle can also be kept in more ?intensive? indoor systems where, in some cases, they may be housed throughout their lives.There are three main methods beef production:

Contd. Here

Fox

[smartk2]

also, pigs are most definitely not all free range, they often are treated very cruelly both here and in mainland Europe on intensive farms.

anyone trying to figure out the difference between free-range/outdoor bred/outdoor reared can view the definitions on this website:

http://www.porkprovenance.co.uk/

Its only a voluntary code of practice that certain companies have signed up to in regards to labeling but perhaps better than nothing.

Personally I think its best to look for a label such as RSPCA or Soil Association if you are deciding to buy organic/free range products as they have clear guidelines on their websites as to what standards are being met.

[belladonna]

It is misleading, but I think they have very good quality meat, some of which may be organic. There's also Mr Sparks in the van on Northcross road. Or borough market...but i say support your local butcher, no nasty plastic packaging, you could buy in the quantity you need and very pleasant service

[womanofdulwich]

oh the shame of it- I have been misleading myself and my family for years :(

[froggy]

RosieH Wrote:

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> I wonder that people are getting so het up when

> they haven't bothered to find out what "free

> range" and "organic" mean. They're two different

> things for crying out loud.

>

> The shop front clearly says Organic and Free

> Range. They're not misleading anyone - it's hardly

> their fault if people are too idiotic to

> understanf basic terminology. Please don't go

> misrepresenting local shops as a way to disguise

> your own ignorance.

what's the agression for? I can see ignorance in the fact that you can't even read the post properly, not to mention your rudeness. Don't bother posting here.

[StraferJack]

Ummm. Rudeness is telling people not to post "here"

What Rosie did was to point out the gaps in the argument. She could have been more polite, it's true. But sometimes directness is preferable to politeness

[StraferJack]

As for organic meat. They sell it. I see it every time I go in there

That doesn't mean I expect or want it if I ask for some chicken breasts or minced beef

But if I want an organic whole chicken or some organic lamb cuts I can buy them there

This is surely how it should be?

[maxxi]

There are different ways of identifying good meat.

Free range pork is more usually sold as 'Outdoor Reared' Pork. Imho outdoor reared 'rare breed' pork is the tastiest (Gloucester Old Spot, Tamworth, Berkshire) as it is naturally fattier and juicier and not bred to look good in supermarket packaging.

For free range beef and lamb the way the animal is 'finished' is more important. Grass fed meat is usually tastier than grain fed (try one of Guy Sparkes' lamb chops and test it alongside a NZ grain fed import and you will taste the difference), also with beef the amount of time it has been allowed to hang really affects the flavour (should be 4 weeks at least) and makes for tender juicy steaks etc.

The best chickens I have bought in ED (and before at Borough Mkt) are Label Anglais chickens - these are slow growing, fully matured free range birds with smaller breasts and bigger legs than supermarket free range chickens. Great taste.

[kabekay]

StraferJack (and RosieH, for that matter)

The last two or three times I have been in Rose's there has been no organic meat available at all. I do take this to be misleading when there is a large sign bearing the word organic over the door, much as I would if a shop labelled "fruit and vegetables" stocked only fruit, and the odd cabbage at the weekend.

The stuff that is organic is generally labelled quite discreetly, which leads me to think that they are not very interested in their customers being able to tell what is and isn't organic. On the other hand, they are clearly keen that their business be associated with the word organic as they use it so prominently in their branding and packaging.

Also, StraferJack, I really don't see why "how it should be" is that birds to be eaten whole should be treated better than birds to be sold in little bits. Just because you do not expect organic chicken breasts or mince it does not meant that nobody else does, from a shop so lavishly adorned with the word organic.

[RosieH]

froggy, I used to be a lot more polite on here. I did, I used to be diplomatic and see both sides of both sides and I was sweetness and light, but I got so pissed off with people being up in arms about nonsense issues. I'm sorry if you felt I was aggressive, I didn't mean to be. Just exasperated.

Posters coming after you have said that they will never shop there again and complained about William Rose misrepresenting themselves - if people are going to complain about a local business, I'd like it to be founded on fact, rather than their own misunderstanding. And that's when I get irate - how can something matter so very very much to a person but not quite enough to bother to find out the facts?

As for posting here or not, I'll post where I bally well please.

[froggy]

Point taken, and nicely and politely articulated :-). You may post here again LOL

[froggy]

kabekay Wrote:

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> StraferJack (and RosieH, for that matter)

> The last two or three times I have been in Rose's

> there has been no organic meat available at all. I

> do take this to be misleading when there is a

> large sign bearing the word organic over the door,

> much as I would if a shop labelled "fruit and

> vegetables" stocked only fruit, and the odd

> cabbage at the weekend.

>

> The stuff that is organic is generally labelled

> quite discreetly, which leads me to think that

> they are not very interested in their customers

> being able to tell what is and isn't organic. On

> the other hand, they are clearly keen that their

> business be associated with the word organic as

> they use it so prominently in their branding and

> packaging.

>

> Also, StraferJack, I really don't see why "how it

> should be" is that birds to be eaten whole should

> be treated better than birds to be sold in little

> bits. Just because you do not expect organic

> chicken breasts or mince it does not meant that

> nobody else does, from a shop so lavishly adorned

> with the word organic.

Exactly my point, couldn't agree more.

[froggy]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ummm. Rudeness is telling people not to post

> "here"

>

> What Rosie did was to point out the gaps in the

> argument. She could have been more polite, it's

> true. But sometimes directness is preferable to

> politeness

(yawn)

[Frankito]

Organic or free-range... I have yet to buy something from there that wasn't the dog's bolloqs... >:D