Faith schools when you're not religious... wrong?

[Sanne Panne]

Eldest turning 4 in July. We're not religious. We're in a rather odd location catchment-wise, it seems (who isn't though? ;)). We moved from ED a while ago and are now on Ruskin Walk in Herne Hill... for local state primaries we're not close to anything but possibly in the catchment of St Jude's (0.7 miles) or Dulwich Village Infants (latter very unlikely for non-siblings @ 0.6 miles based on posts seen on this forum). We may also be close enough to Bessemer Grange (0.8 miles) but not sure what it's like and Jessops (0.6 miles) which I heard isn't great.

Anyway. If we were to apply for St Jude's and DVI and are offered a place (is this possible at all with no siblings there and no intention to be a faith applicant?), what should we expect in terms of religion at the schools? Is there just a dedicated religion class once or twice a week or is religion part of every aspect of education? I don't mind a religious element as I see it as culturally relevant and valuable as such but don't want it to be overwhelming as it doesn't fit our views - and I don't want to "insult" the school by not taking active part in extracurricular religious initiatives either.

Thanks for all advice/experiences you're willing to share...

Edited to clarify poor wording

[new mother]

Very nicely put and very decent of you not to go for a faith place. Many people suddenly discover religion and lose principle at this stage. I don't know what they do faithwise at all but, given the tolerance and "reasonableness" of your post, can't see that you would find it a problem.

[SR]

Personally I do not think that religious establishments should control entry to state education. People "discover religion" as new mother says because they discover that they want their child to go to a decent school and get a decent education. What about Hindus, what about Muslims? Paying taxes the same as Church of England Christians but no decent schools for their religious preference nearby. So kids are excluded from decent state schools.

This might be inflamatory, but surely I'm not the only one?

[SR]

Sorry Sanne Penne, can't help with your question, and went on a rant! Although I'm afraid it's my hunch you don't have much chance as a non faith applicant, hope I am wrong. Good luck!

[sanity girl]

Hi there,

the faith and non-faith ("open") places at Dulwich Village Infants are divided 50/50. I would say you have a good chance of getting an open place, especially if you are at the bottom end of Ruskin Walk. It wouldn't hurt to put it as your first choice, particularly as it's your closest school. Regarding the religious element of education, I don't know what it's like now, but when I was there back in the 70s it was pretty light and inoffensive to non-believers - I am an atheist, raised by atheist parents and it did me no harm :))

On their website they say: "We will do everything we can to ensure that each child demonstrates excellent behaviour and a respect for the cultural and religious differences of all." Can't do better than that really!

Good luck with it all.

[Otta]

I certainly don't think it would be wrong to send you child to a CofE school, Catholic would be a different matter, but you'd never get in to one of them without attending church anyway.

I definitely don't think they'll have religion stuffed down their necks, they'll probably do a nativity at Christmas though.

What is absolutely wrong in my book, is people attending a church for a few weeks, just to get a school place!

[womanofdulwich]

My children went to dv C o E about 10 years ago and as I was raised Christian and went to C oE schools myself it seemed fine. As part of the general curriculaum they looked at other faiths too - Sikhs seemed to get a lot of attention - but maybe it was the swords etc that they so liked. There is a harvest festival and Christmas / nativity and I think it is very gentle- whilst son went to a catholic secondary school ( they used to take a percentage of non - catholoics as longyou you practices a religion) I would not advocate a secondary school as that is very in your face and very unfortunatly turned my son against any religion at all.

[Sanne Panne]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful and reassuring. I don't think we'll realistically get into either of the CofE schools, even with DVI being our nearest school. I assume this means we'll probably get into a less popular school that's further away.

I do sympathise with your rant SR, in a way I feel I should shut up as I've only been in the UK for 5 years but on the other hand my kids are growing up here and I can't buy my way out of the system by having two kids go private (and even if I could, others couldn't so that doesn't solve the problem) - nor can I influence "the system" much as my sorry EU passport only allows me to vote in local elections (and yes I always vote in those). Rant over ;)

[sillywoman]

We are an agnostic/something-but-unsure-what household & all our children have been through DVI school on community places. I can't rate it highly enough & even my very skeptical, 'hyper alert for any hint of religion' husband admits that the school was just great. They do discuss God & religion(s a bit but it doesn't pervade their lives at school. Also bear in mind it's only an infant school so their time of influence is very short - 3 years. They don't seem to have particular lessons about christianity more, 'be nice so others will be nice to you' kind of thing (though obviously with more depth to it than that - I'm severely paraphrasing there). It's just underlying the schools ethos. I don't recall any extracurricular religious events, though I guess it depends whether you count Easter, Christmas & end of term church services as religious. Certainly if you do then there are some events, but there's no pressure to attend & no one keeps a record or would feel let down if you didn't attend (though your child may have something to say about it!). The strongest sense my children came away with was a sense of community, being safe, & being respected. I would say go for it - even with the hell of year 3 transfer - you just will never find a lovelier start to a childs' school life than they'll get at DVI under it's present head.

Incidentally we now have 1 agnostic, 1 atheist, 1 christian & 1 too young to decide yet child. They were all encouraged to think for themselves & clearly they have!

[Renata Hamvas]

To Clarify on Faith Schools, most of Southwark's C of E schools have a mixture of C of E places and community places, with the later being determined on distance. Catholic schools prioritise with Catholics being giving priority, then other christians and then community, with the last being on distance. This means that you may get a place at a catholic school as a non-catholic, it depends on the number of catholic families who apply.

Renata

[catgirl]

I'd be interested to see stats on how many non Catholics have been offered a place at any of the catholic schools in the past few years..

[ClareC]

I would be very surprised if it's anything other than none for our local RC schools.

I personally have no issue with faith schools provided they are non exclusive. My infant and junior school were CoE which basically meant we had assembly each morning with hymns, celebrated Easter, Harvest festival and Christmas. That was the extent of the faith element. Nobody pretended to be something they were not and there was no bogus church attendance. Children of other/no faiths were not excluded from the school, some opted out of the religious element of assembly but that was the only difference between the pupils.

Pupils all lived in walking distance and simply went to their closest school.

I think mixing faith and non faith places works really well. Exclusivity based upon faith alone doesn't sit well with me I'm afraid, wrong on so many levels :-(

[Sol]

I met someone who lives in Ruskin Walk and whose daughter got into the DVI this the year, the did have a bulge class this year though

[Renata Hamvas]

Some were this year. This has been due to St Antony's and St William of York (Honor Oak, just over into Lewisham) bulging meaning an extra 45 Catholic places in the area.

Renata