Parental disagreements; insight much appreciated.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Imagine you and your partner/co parent/etc have very different views on some aspects of parenting, for example, one of you wants to send your almost 2y/o to nursery for two mornings a week and the other parent doesn't what would you do?factors worth bearing in mind:

-you have a newborn who is generally contended little thing but who does get very overstimulated at your toddlers playgroups- so any outings are cut very short, and this really upsets you toddler.

-toddler isn't really speaking yet but you've witnessed him saying words here and there when with his friends, and know if he spent more time with his peers, his language would take off.

-toddler is fast becoming bored and frustarted with most days revolving entirely around the baby, and hides/sobs when baby inevitably has a melt down.

The ideal solution would appear to be a short session or two at nursery. My husband isn't on board and is obsessed with the idea that my son will be abused/traumatised. He's got a place at a cr?che style nursery and has visited seeral times. He has loved it each time he's been there. I am happy for him to attend, having heard outstanding things from several parents.

I sort of feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place1 whatever I do, I'll be upsetting someone, and I feel terribley guilty anyway- either I'm letting my daughter down by taking her to places that means she screams and screams or I cut my sons playtime short and obviously this really upsets him.

WHat would the mums of the forum do?

[Otta]

WHat would the mums of the forum do?

Well, as a dad, I'd do exactly what is best or YOU, your baby, and your toddler! You're the one who is home dealing with it all, and seeing the effect on the toddler.

As a general rule, I have come to realse that it's best if I just follow Mrs Otta's lead on things. Obviously I'll offer my opinion, but when our opinions are very different, I'll usually bow to her, because at the end of the day, she's with the kids ore than I am, so knows about their moods in the day, when I (unfortunately) am not there.

[Moos]

RB, it's hard to tell without hearing your other half's side of the story.

Having had experience of my boy (aged 3) not very happy at one nursery, and very happy at another, I'm all in favour of part-time play at a good nursery or cr?che, esp in the 4th year, getting ready for school. No experience of a 2 yo at nursery.

Maybe suggest your other half visit a nursery and discuss his concerns?

[Moos]

And - what Otta said. If Mr. B could spend some time looking after both kids alone, perhaps that would help him understand what you are trying to achieve for both of your children, and how tricky it is to meet both their needs at once.

[duchessofdulwich]

Could you ask the nursery if your husband could go and have a look at the nursery? Maybe that way he could see what benefit it would have for your son

Im in the same place I have registered my daughter for a pre school place but wondering if she should do a session or two at a nursery in the mean time.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Otta, that's exactly what I said to my husband- and he fully appreciates that "mum knows best" and knows that I'm not sending him off so I can have a break; it's purely for my son's benefit really.

Moos; dh is being incredibly stubborn and won't visit the place, tbf he is working himself silly ATM so any time off for him would be difficult. He's concerned that the cr?che isn't ofsted registered (sessions are too short for it to be) and is also convinced that because it's not terribley expensive per session, that the standard of care must e sub par.

I'm trying to be objective and see his (and other "interested" family members. Sigh.) but I feel like shouting "it's my money paying for it and I'm the one who spends all day with one of them crying their eyes out, so leave the decision to me!" but a tantrum from me won't help at all...

[Otta]

I should add, that we took our daughter out of nursery (2 mornings a week) after only about 6 weeks, because it seemed to make her miserable.

Do bare in mind, that toddler is already freaking out a bit, because this intruder has come and stolen his mummy's attention. There is a risk that he'll feel totally abandoned if you leave him at nursery for 4 hours... Sorry, not trying to freak you out.

If it makes you feel any better, we're currently dealing with a bit of an unhappy toddler, who seems to love her little sister, but is desperate for mummy time.

[Yak]

Would a trial of the nursery - say of a couple of weeks - be an idea? You could agree to review it after then...perhaps if its going well could Mr B squeeze in a visit to reassure him, if he has a spare half hour?

[Pickle]

I agree with everything that's been said - I was lucky in that when my kids were 6 months and 19 months respectively Mr Pickle had a couple of months off between jobs so got to see first hand just how hard it can be looking after two young children full time, so I had his support when it came to making a decision to use part time childcare.

I'm a strong believer in kids being at home with parents in the early years where ever possible, but both of my children attended a creche (possibly the same one you are considering going by your description) - son from age 2.5 and daughter from around 21 months. I very quickly came to realise that time away from the main carer is a great thing for kids and parents alike, and an environment like the creche they went to was ideal. Son went 2 mornings a week to begin with, and we increased it to 3 before he moved to school nursery, and we did the same with our little girl.

At Magic Moments, where we ended up attending for over 2 years in total, the care provided is loving - the ladies who run it are some of the nicest I have come across in a long time, and it was me in tears at the end of our long relationship with them due to the support they provide parents as well as kids :-$

It's not ofsted registered, but I would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending it to anyone looking for a couple of mornings a week "off". It prepared my kids brilliantly for the transition to school nursery, and even though the focus is on having fun they learnt a lot by attending. It gently gets them ready for the routine involved with attending more formal education and most importantly provides an environment where cuddles are readily available to any child (or parent) who needs them.

They are very flexible, so if you decide it's not for you they will fully understand.

I've already told them that I'll be back in a couple of years with #3!

[Ruth_Baldock]

I am worried he will feel a bit abandoned, really don't know what to do! Argh! At least it's not just us in this situation, Otta.

Pickle- yep, same place you used ;) loved the drawings your LOs did in the thankyou card to the staff ;) (sound like a right stalker). Seb had a look round again this am and they were all so lovely to him, as were other children, playing with him and insisting on holding his hand. One of the older little girls stroked his hair and said he was "soft and pretty".

Mr B only sees how it is at weekends but did notice that Seb was deeply distressed hen Lex bad a big meltdown when we took them both out swimming. He asked if that happenned often, and I replied "several times a day". She's a very good sleeper but only in her cot- hates the pram and ergo (if started off somewhere calm- like at home, if I try and settle her in it as a last resort when we're out, it doesn't work!)he's said ultimately he decision is down to mebut I don't want to make a big decision that he's unhappy with

big sad :(

[Ruth_Baldock]

Yak, this is what I've suggested, Mr B made slightly more positive noises. Also he won't be working after december for a while so will have time to pop in. Of course, Lex will be 6mo old by then and will actually be able to properly interact with seb/ at playgroups etc.

Cor, this parenting lark is an total minefield!

[Pickle]

I think you should give it a try. Give it enough time for him to settle in properly (depending on how many mornings a week he goes, I think about a month), and if it's working great. If not, have a rethink.

At the end of the day, Seb had you to himself in his early months, so why should Lex not have the same for a few hours a week? Especially if it means that she'll be more settled, and also that Seb won't see her distressed in situations that should be fun for him. My two loved it at creche, I'm the idiot forced to toot the horn loudly every time we drive past the building as they excitedly wave :)

[Ruth_Baldock]

So true! My ILs sometimes take Seb out for the day and I won't lie, it's lovely to be able to be with LexBaby (as seb calls her) 1:1. I just spend ages looking at her or napping with her or taking her for slow walks in th sling. I sound really soppy, but i'm absolutely besotted by her and get really upset when she wails and wails at bookstart (a particuarly hated activity for her and seb's favourite!).

Also hit the nail on the head, he should have FUN when we go out, not be distressed.

[bluesuperted]

Hey Ruth, I think you've made your mind up and should go with your instinct (sorry Mr B!) on this one - perfectly balancing the needs of two littlies all day everyday is impossible and if the creche is that lovely then Seb is likely to get loads out of it. I often think about how tricky it must be to balance the needs of two under two, on your own, and it makes me remember to leave the gap a little longer before popping out another one, haha!

However, I would say that I don't think that Seb needs to go to nursery for language reasons and to learn language specifically from his peers - research shows that actually it's the primary caregiver (you!) who they learn the most from - hence why later siblings and twins usually have slower language development - they end up getting a lot of their language input from a slightly less perfect model than just their mother! Which of course is normal and not a problem at all, but just didn't want you to think your home environment isn't a lovely and rich language learning one! And hence why Seb's language is actually all there, bursting to come to the surface!

But I digress, Magic Moments sounds very nurturing and hopefully Seb will love it and you can have a few mini babymoons with lovely little Lex each week which will do you both the world of good.

xx

[snowboarder]

Just to note - oldest small snowboarder started 'school' for 2 mornings a week 2 months after the arrival of youngest and I think it did him good - he's certainly improved in terms of behavior and I really think he likes having something he does away from the baby - whilst he still does demand my attention at times (no milk! no milk!) too. That said although I think it is good for us all - I find the drop off and pick up a total pain - always at baby sleep time!

[apenn]

Hi Ruth,

You said in your OP that he's visited the creche/nursery several times and always been happy. I think that's your answer right there! You'll know if he's having a good time and looks forward to going. You said Daddy can see the place for himself in Dec - but that sounds like a long wait to me. I appreciate that he's busy at work, but if he can't make time to see for himself then should defer to your opinion. It's not fair to keep you and him waiting that long when you seem to really think this is a good thing for all concerened. Just my 2 pence, anyway!

-A

[Princess]

Ruth,

We're in very similar situations as you know and have put our eldest in nursery for one morning a week. He started well but is getting more and more distressed each time we leave him. My resolve is breaking and like Otta I am on the verge of pulling him out.

But, in my less emotionally charged moments I am aware in nearly a years time he'll be off to nursery for his 15 hours. We've started doing the school open day rounds and I've found somewhere I love but can't imagine him coping going in with no experience of being in a larger group, away from me etc.

Like you, I'm not doing it for a break (although it is nice to spend 4 hours with my 10 week old doing 'baby stuff'). I'm very much doing it for him to meet friends (we moved 7 weeks ago and know no one here. He had a large group he saw regularly in ED) and to improve his social and language skills.

For what it's worth, I think it's worth a shot and if you take it slowly Seb will probably love it, although maybe not at first!!

Px

[Belle]

Re settling in, I would def say to give it time (but obv every child is different etc). My son started 2 mornings a week at a local nursery after turning 2, initially loved it, then after a couple of weeks he went through a phase of being v upset at drop off, and I did find this hard. But I was reassured (and cd tell by lingering outside the door after I left!) that he was fine within a minute of me going, and he was always happy when I went to collect him - his usual self. So we persevered and within a few short weeks he was absolutely fine. Obviously you have to go with instinct, and mine was telling me this was just a phase and that overall he was getting a lot out of it, so I am glad I stuck to it - if I'd thought there was more to it I'd have reconsidered. Some kids don't go through this phase of course but some do, so don't worry if it does happen. Sounds like the MM staff are great and will help you through settling in anyway.

[mockney piers]

If it helkps I have a positive nursery story.

The mocklet has been there since he was about 10 months old (after spending 6 months with me, so I know how hard it is to do full time care, and I know how hard it was for me to go back to work).

Mocklet however just loved it from the off. He loves being around other kids and it was obvious immediately how this socialising paid real dividends in his progress.

He has been there for almost a year now and has a couple of friends he's created a strong bond with, not to mention we've met some really fab people too!!

[Otta]

In a strange coincidence, Mrs Otta has just called me to tell me our daughter has been given a place for 2 afternoons a week, at a more chreche / playschool type place, starting after half term (when she'll be 2.5). For her, it sounds a much nicer option than the nursery she was at, as it'l only 2.5 hour sessions, and all rather relaxed. Plus it's cheap as chips, which is always a bonus!

[Sanne Panne]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In a strange coincidence, Mrs Otta has just called

> me to tell me our daughter has been given a place

> for 2 afternoons a week, at a more chreche /

> playschool type place, starting after half term

> (when she'll be 2.5). For her, it sounds a much

> nicer option than the nursery she was at, as it'l

> only 2.5 hour sessions, and all rather relaxed.

> Plus it's cheap as chips, which is always a bonus!

That's how we started too although our daughter had had some childminder experience before the sibling was born. You can't really know how easily they settle in until you try it. I think a few creche sessions (see it as a drop off playgroup) will be great for both of you, probably even more for Seb than for you!

[cuppa tea]

Hopefully this doesn't sound harsh, but I kind of think it's probably your decision to make, rather than your husband's. It's you who is doing most of the childcare, and you who it all has an impact on. Presumably you would also be doing the nursery drop offs and settling in?

Though honestly I don't understand the points you made about his language taking off when he is with other 2 year olds. He will be getting his language development from being around you and you communicating with him, rather than from other 2 year olds who are also learning to speak...and probably don't do it as well as his mum! I would say the same for socialising too. Mostly 2 year olds seem to parallel play and are not particularly interested in playing with each other. My little boy only started being interested in others at around 3 ish, probably even later.

I started my son at nursery at 2.5 for a couple of mornings a week, but with hindsight it wasn't the best idea for him. Your son is of course a different person. I was expecting a new baby and kept hearing "you'll need a break when the baby comes along", and "he needs to get used to being away from you for when he starts school". He found nursery quite hard and wasn't ready to socialise with 30 or so other kids. But they are all different and if your son is fine with you parting from you and seems happy when he is there and on pick up, then you could follow his lead on it. It could also be that the boredom and frustrations with life revolving around the baby are mainly because he has a new sibling, with all that entails. He is probably frustrated at inevitably having to share his mum. I would make sure that he really does want to go to nursery on his terms and that doesn't feel pushed out.

[Ruth_Baldock]

CT, very true- with this in mind, we compromised and he's going to start in Jan, when he'll e 25mo and the baby 6mo. Hopefully the new sibling moods will have worn off and he won't feel like it's such a big shock.

[DaveR]

RB, have you considered a session or two with a childminder for your toddler? It's the obvious alternative to nursery and probably less of a change compared to being at home.

[Otta]

Ruth, I think that is a good compromise, and a good move.