Ed Miliband - Tory-Lite?

[Loz]

I've always considered Labour to be somewhat hamstrung in the economics debate since they admitted they would have cut budgets dramatically as well (?16 Labour cuts for every ?17 of Tory cuts, apparently). So I was rather surprised that they actually announced with some fanfare that they would cap student fees at ?6000, rather than return them to their pre-Coalition rates or even drop them altogether.

Is taking the line "We'd do much the same, but not as heavily" really the strategy that is going to win Miliband the next election? Is he just the Tory-lite Labour leader?

[Senor Chevalier]

Yep - they are twiddling at the edges saying what they would do if they were in power which is irrelevant as they are not. I was particularly amused by this one though. They are basically holding their hand up and saying that their previous stance was utter cobblers and so they have taken a giant leap Toryward. Can they honestly expect anyone to buy the notion that we should vote for them as they would execute a fractionally recalibrated version of the Tories own plan? The alternative being to let the Tories deliver their own plan.

Well it's a no brainer isn't it...

I'll say it again. Cobblers.

ETA: Oh and the other plan. Drop ?12bn in VAT receipts to stimulate the economy.

The only certainty in this is that the VAT revenues will fall by ?12bn. Will it boost growth and if so would it generate more or less than the ?12bn it costs?

It's a gutsy call to say that ?12bn should be invested in this indirect and untargeted way.

Utter Balls and the consequence of a bunch of twerps sat in a room brainstorming and tinkering up a plan that they can package in easy to digest soundbites to fill the vacuum left by having no agenda on this. Charge students frationally less and drop VAT a little bit - inspirational stuff and bound to work...

[Marmora Man]

Dull, uninspiring speech that played to the loyalist Labour gallery rather than to a wider audience.

I expect tomorrow's reviews and subsequent polls to reflect this.

[zeban]

I personally liked his speech. I like his values very much and he's absolutely spot on with the problems that exist in our society.

[Huguenot]

I'm not sure it's difficult to be spot on with the problems that exist in our society, but it's very difficult to find solutions.

Tinkering with caps on university fees is pointless.

Seems like a nice guy though. Very sweet and friendly. He'd be good in a bakery.

[mockney piers]

I actually rather like him. He's a decent chap and seems to be pretty honest and Frank.

Lacks charisma and doesn't engage with the electorate, but that just reinforces that we get the self serving arseholes we deserve.

It's a reflection of us not him.

Best of luck to him when he opens that bakery because he hasn't a snowflakes chance of winning anything.

And in fairness he's less Tory lite than nu labour.

[StraferJack]

if he had showmanship he would be called "Blair Mk 2"

if he had great oratory skills he would be called "Obama Mk 2"

and both would be intended as put-downs

I'm with Piers - I like him, I'm in the minority, he won't win anything

But I would be very interested in seeing how this country did if he did get elected.

[Senor Chevalier]

Agree he seems like a nice chap. Certainly more likeable than the Conservative lot. If he had some actual policies that were coherent and suggested that Labour would be a safe pair of hands then heck I might even vote for him (I've been known to wobble between left and right). Unfortunately listing from one "voter message workshop" to the next ain't doing it for me. They are years away from a general election so should forget the politics and come up with an actual organised plan.

[StraferJack]

there is your problem right there - any detailed plan formulated now is of extremely limited value if you can't implement it until a few years time, when events will have moved on

Sometimes part leaders do give detailed tick-box plans at conference speeches - and then get told off for delivering just a tick-box speech. It's a hiding to nothing really.

[mockney piers]

and in fairness politics seems t have moved away from the visionary and towards the pragmatic, partly as a response to the awfulness of the sounbite veneer but no substance of the Blair era, but also as a response to the ground constantly shaking under our feet as we lurch from one crisis to another.

I don't think that's a bad thing. I've always quite liked Ed's lack of urgency in toeing a party line and addressing things honestly, likewise I'm quite enjoying the coalition's pragmatic u-turns on policies they get wrong (which is quite often lets face it!!)

[Chippy Minton]

I thought his speech was ok, but it was pretty shameful for the rest of them to boo Tony Blair. Extremely short memories of Labour's most successful PM ever!

[Loz]

I came out think I know now what Ed Miliband isn't, but rather less sure about what he is. I agree he has a rather likeable unflashyness about him, which makes a nice change from the careful control of Blair and Cameron.

The problem is that there is really nothing radical in there. It is all 'we're not as bad as the Tories', rather than any major shift. The tuition fees was a case in point - radical headlining would be to seriously cut or even remove tuition fees by, say, reducing undergrad courses to two intensive years. But no, instead it is 'cutting' them to only double what they used to be, instead of the Coalition's tripling.

As for anything else significant, the major headline seemed to be 'we will rein in business and high salaries'. Then witness the furious backpedalling this morning when there was the perception that he had offended business.

I am just not seeing any opposition. No real alternative.

[Loz]

Chippy Minton Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought his speech was ok, but it was pretty

> shameful for the rest of them to boo Tony Blair.

> Extremely short memories of Labour's most

> successful PM ever!

I think there is a perception in the Labour party that Blair was the second most successful Tory PM in modern times!

[StraferJack]

You would be hard-pressed to say that the population genuinely want anything radical, They might say they do, in many different ways, but faced with a genuinely radical potential leader they would run for the hills

It's a perennial poser for both the population and any politician wishing to get elected. I blame the voters more than I blame the people trying to get their votes (slightly)

[Loz]

You are right in that anything too left field (or even left of centre!) would be suicide at the ballot box, but I was still looking for something that differentiates Labour. Something that would make we want to vote for them again. I just cannot see what that is at the moment.

At the moment it is all slightly right of centre policies across all three parties, with the varying degrees of authoritarianism and nanny-state-ism to back them the only differentiator.

[david_carnell]

SJ is right about policies vs vision. There is no point listing a series of policies three years away from a general election. The ground moves in the meantime and you're left looking either inflexible and dogmatic or someone who flip-flops and jumps on bandwagons.

What he should be doing is slowly defining the vision he has for Britain and outlining more general methods of working towards that. I want to be shown something to believe in and strive for before I get all excited over fiscal policy minutiae.

As a Labour member who voted for EM I'm a little underwhelmed compared to how impressed I was in the election debates but I think he's doing ok.

[zeban]

I agree with SJ and Carnell. Pointless listing policies. He's outlining what he's about and personally I think that came off well. He's not Tory lite at all.

[nashoi]

Sounds more like Major Mk2 and not just in the literal sense.

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> if he had showmanship he would be called "Blair Mk

> 2"

>

> if he had great oratory skills he would be called

> "Obama Mk 2"

>

> and both would be intended as put-downs

>

> I'm with Piers - I like him, I'm in the minority,

> he won't win anything

>

> But I would be very interested in seeing how this

> country did if he did get elected.

[Huguenot]

This from the Grauniad:

He [Milliband] was asked why he wasn't taking the party to the left. Some in the party are concerned that his theme of "something for something" meant benefits such as housing should be withheld from those who cannot prove the contribution they make to society.

He said: "Elections are won from the centre ground. And I think that's a good thing. I want Conservatives voting for us ? that's how we win elections."

So in other words he was explicitly positioning himself as Tory-Lite. What better evidence do you need?

[StraferJack]

pish H

Any party needs voters from other parties toget elected - so of course he wants Tory voters, just as Cameron wants Labour voters

That doesn't make Cameron Labour-lite any more than it makes Miliband Tory-lite

[Jeremy]

I think both the Tories and Labour have to compromise their ideologies to ensure broader support. And that's not necessarily all bad.

[dbboy]

IMO Ed looked more like a scared animal caught in the headlights

[Mick Mac]

Dull Ed doesn't like private equity, so I don't like him. But then I did not like him in the first place.

As for him being Tory lite - he's more like socialist lite. He's as left as you could be and still be labour leader, but he's pretending to be a bit more middle ground to get voted in.

Comparing yourself to Tony Blair - dream on Ed. Tony Blair had charisma. Your brother has some too.

[StraferJack]

"I'm not Tony Blair" = comparing yourself to Tony Blair?

How does that work?

[Mick Mac]

Its a little trick of the mind SJ.

Association.

Of course he is not Tony Blair, or anything like Tony Blair, but he'd like to be. He's even supporting some of the policies of Margaret Thatcher.

He's trying to get rid of his leftie image. The whole speech was an attempt to move his image towwards the middle ground.