Should Alastair Darling resign?

[david_carnell]

First there was Northern Rock, now millions of HMRC records have gone missing.

Should he now fall on his sword?

Discuss.

[SeanMacGabhann]

oooh I wouldn't be upset if he went but for these 2 things - not sure

I think the right man has gone after the records went missing and as for Northern Rock - that was a case of damned if he does damned if he doesn't. There are pitfalls ahead for sure but it's a bit too early to write the NR story

[*Bob*]

Great! I hope my VAT returns are amongst the missing documents hee hee

[mockney piers]

You can't blame Darling for either. NR and others' operating procedures have been known about for many years and undergone FSA scrutiny, so you could blame GB for pulling the FSA's teeth and turning a blind eye to the risks or falling for the voodoo science behind making money out of expensive loans to the poor, but it's a bit unfair on Darling to take the blame for that or a functionary's screw. Agency head has gone, that's good enough.

Hopefully it will once and for all put paid to the whole ID nonsense and the constant assurances that the data will be safe. I have to say I was more concerned about the government abusing data, but if they can't even protect the damn stuff!!!

[SeanMacGabhann]

but Piers the ID nonsense is to protect us from the tuurrists!!!

[Fear 'n boozin]

think they've given up on that argument sean, no idea why, it was obviously workable. these days id cards are to help protect us from fraud and those nasty immos.

Quick search, the beeb search, cost of fraud to the uk economy 2005 - ?16 billion. Cost of id cards 2005 - ?18bn. Cost of id cards later on in 2005 - ?30bn. Cost of id cards 2007 - ?5bn...which isn't really what I was hoping for, but I guess it suggests they haven't got a clue. And quite how they are going to prevent the ?16bn of fraud, I'm not really sure.

Anyway, guess he shouldn't go, most of it's probably hangover from Browns watch. Still, not good news for him. Imagine Brown will want to keep him on s a) he's his mate, and b) he can blame him for the hard times and 'tough decisions' ahead.

[david_carnell]

From the tourists!!? ;-)

I know some of those from the former colonies can be a bit uncouth but surely we don't need ID cards to prove we are not North American - merely the ability to detect irony.

Whatever happened to Ministerial responsibility? If your government dept is not "fit for purpose" it is your problem. You, as the Minister in charge, are the only one accountable to the public. If it all goes Pete Tong, you should go. So goes the old adage. Recently this is no longer the case. As long as an anonymous civil servant gets the boot it all seems to be ok.

An I completely agree with you Mockney, god knows what ID card data wold contain and how the govt would mis-treat it. I consider myself a Labour man, but I think this is a bit of a shambles at the moment. It reminds me of Major's lame-duck of a govt post Black Weds.

[downsouth]

No he shouldn't. NR was a novel situation. Although I do think Lloyds should have been allowed to buy the bank early doors which would have quietened the whole situation. We now have another lender (Paragon?) pleading for support from the Government/taxpayer.

It's going to get messier as this thing goes on.

[ratty]

Should we give all Tories a right fooking shooing?

Discuss!

[atila the gooner]

What a question, of course he should, for fecks sake these people get away with murder (See Ian Blair) and don't even get a slap on the wrist. Get the fecker out!!! Is this not classed as gross incomptence and therefore a sackable offence. It certainly is in every field I've ever worked in, which includes the retail, insurance, finance, music, customer service, and mortgage industry. God, how do these w**kers get away with it!!!

[*Bob*]

Of course he shouldn't resign. What balls.

(a load of balls)

[atila the gooner]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Of course he shouldn't resign. What balls.

>

> (a load of balls)

Yes the fact that he is allowed to continue in public office is Balls!!! These people!!

[mockney piers]

Hardly a fair comparison. Blair sanctioned Kratos and would have had a close eye on operations regarding the pursuit of the July 21 'bombers'.

I'm pretty sure Darling would not have been briefed on Junior administrator's access to sensitive data; Head of HMRC has gone, and heads will doubtless roll within the IT dept; but hardly Darling's fault.

It's now coming to light just how poor IT security is in many places across gov't departments. If ministers do nothing to act on this immediately and there are subsequent lapses then fair enough, they go; but murder it ain't.

I totally agree with chap on Today programme this morning from OFSomethingorOther (data protection watchdog) who's been witnessing these lapses across public and private sectors for too long and calling for stronger measures available, such that chief executives should face criminal charges. So yeah, next time maybe send him to prison, but for the moment I don't see any advantage in making him fall on the sword.

[*Bob*]

Atila.. I'm assuming you had to apply the same uber-stringent levels of personal responsibility (all the way down the line to the tea-boy) in the jobs you've had within the retail, insurance, finance, music, customer service, and mortgage industries?

It must be hard having to resign all the time - but I admire your principles!

[cdonline]

Absolutely not. This mock outrage everywhere on the News is pathetic.

There seems to be no more information on the case, but just endless speculation on what if some nasty ruffian gets hold of my address and bank details and empties my bank account. Lucky for me, it will be a wasted exercise.

Get over it.

I think they're all pissed off that there are only two dead women buried in that house and are fishing around for something to fill the News with. Does anyone know if there's a flood due?

[atila the gooner]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Atila.. I'm assuming you had to apply the same

> uber-stringent levels of personal responsibility

> (all the way down the line to the tea-boy) in the

> jobs you've had within the retail, insurance,

> finance, music, customer service, and mortgage

> industries?

>

> It must be hard having to resign all the time -

> but I admire your principles!

Just for the record, I've never had to resign in my working life, all 34 years of it, even when I've had small teams of around 15 people to look after. I hate the current attitude which points the finger of blame somewhere else and takes no responsibility for their actions, it's a bit like criminals who blame society, family, god, the police, the government for the fact they are scum bags. But we are talking about politicians here and as a breed they are the most self seeking bunch I've ever come across.

[mockney piers]

I hope that's tongue in cheek cdonline.

If you don't think that shoving the personal details including NI and bank details of 25 million people on a couple of unencrypted disks (that alone is, as a geek who deals with sensitive data all the time, shocking) and then losing them, is serious, then I wonder what on earth you think DOES qualify?!?!

[*Bob*]

34 years without a hitch.

Have you considered politics? We need people like you in government to make sure things like this don't happen.

[atila the gooner]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> 34 years without a hitch.

> Have you considered politics? We need people like

> you in government to make sure things like this

> don't happen.

Have you ever considered comedy as career.........................perhaps it's best you don't. Perhaps politics is more you.

[*Bob*]

Well, er, have YOU considered.. er..

Ok, you're right. I bow to your greater wisdom (and impeccable employment record).

[atila the gooner]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Well, er, have YOU considered.. er..

>

> Ok, you're right. I bow to your greater wisdom

> (and impeccable employment record).

Bob, thank you for your kind and, I'm sure, sincere and heartfelt words. You're too kind.

[*Bob*]

atila the gooner Wrote:

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> Bob, thank you for your kind and, I'm sure,

> sincere and heartfelt words. You're too kind.

Sniff.. aaw, Atila.. this is just too much..

I resign.

[atila the gooner]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> atila the gooner Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Bob, thank you for your kind and, I'm sure,

> > sincere and heartfelt words. You're too kind.

>

> Sniff.. aaw, Atila.. this is just too much..

>

> I resign.

I think it's for the best.

[*Bob*]

I'll be back, though. As the 'forum member without portfolio'.

[cdonline]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> I hope that's tongue in cheek cdonline.

>

> If you don't think that shoving the personal

> details including NI and bank details of 25

> million people on a couple of unencrypted disks

> (that alone is, as a geek who deals with sensitive

> data all the time, shocking) and then losing them,

> is serious, then I wonder what on earth you think

> DOES qualify?!?!

My point was what has this to do with the dark eyebrowed one and the Labour Government? And a media that fuels people's fears of identity fraud.