Old hospital site ideal for a new free school?

[Earl Aelfheah]

What do you think?

[James Barber]

What sort of free school?

Presume you mean the levelled part. To get planning permission despite the development plan for the site and build it would take several years and many ?M's.

[Earl Aelfheah]

What's the development plan for the site?

[steveo]

Let me explain, they knocked down a fantastic old building to build something Blairy, bright and shiny then realised the huge pot of gold was actually a chalice full of sewage and now there is nothing. Perhaps the gypsies should have it.

[DulwichFox]

An Inner City Farm....

Allotments..

Fox

[Vilmos]

The argument to keep East Dulwich Hospital open was flawed.

Maintaining a building of that age is very high. It is expensive to heat, to clean and to run clinical services in. There must be asbestos hidden all over the building and maintaining it, i.e keeping rain and draught out, against maintaining a new building that is Eco friendly must be quite marked.

[i*Rate]

rahrahrah,

Any relation to Toby rahrah Young?

A superb idea, just like they are doing in Hammersmith, where voluntary groups are being evicted from an old mansion house so that a Free School (ie; school for children from rich middle class families) can be built using public money. What's special about the school is that it will be a public school with no fees - clever plan.

Unfortunately, Southwark is a Labour-run borough now and they won't be pleased with the idea AND think of the impact it would have on JAGS, Alleyns and Dulwich College plus all the extra coaches busing in the pupils - social chaos!

Pip, Pip.

[richfish]

Building a school based on a flawed consumerist concept of supposed parental choice (or control/segregation?)) and political fad would seem to me to be an unsustainable endeavour in the extreme regardless of education, place or site. A stark 21st century British contradiction - we are told to embrace the economic, social and cultural benefits of diversity but in school we seem to merrily perpetuate and reinforce social, religious and class divisions.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree that faith schools and private education are both hugely decisive (although at least in the latter example they are not being directly paid for by taxpayers).

Can't see the problem with free schools however, as long as they are inclusive / have an open admissions policy.

Richfish Wrote:

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> Building a school based on a flawed consumerist

> concept of supposed parental choice (or

> control/segregation?)) and political fad would

> seem to me to be an unsustainable endeavour in the

> extreme regardless of education, place or site. A

> stark 21st century British contradiction - we are

> told to embrace the economic, social and cultural

> benefits of diversity but in school we seem to

> merrily perpetuate and reinforce social, religious

> and class divisions.

[Earl Aelfheah]

There's a free school opening in Camberwell as I understand it, so not sure that Southwark would (or could) actually block it.

[toast]

The council have almost no say over academies, no idea about free schools. Probably more effective to goto a chain instead e.g Harris or habidashers. I'm very wary of free schools, but then again I don't really know what they are. I am however awair that given the required buldges in primary schools the last few years I am glad someone is thinking about these things now. would be nice to hear the councils plans for dealing with these extra children when they hit secondary age. People sure arnt leaving the job security of London right now, or any time soon.

[steveo]

Some of the people on this thread could benefit from some education

[Earl Aelfheah]

@James Barber -

Clearly it takes a long time to get a school built. However, as toast points out, there is going to be a severe shortage of secondary school places in the coming years. ED has seen increasing numbers of young families moving to the area and there is already a shortage of primary school places. The flattened part of the hospital wing is a publicly owned, brown field site that has been left undeveloped and unproductive (extremely wastefully) for some considerable time. If you start from the premise that there is a need to expand the number of secondary school places for the future, then in identifying a potential site it seems a natural contender. In terms of the model ? well it would depend on the level of interest, the skills of those willing to get involved, and the amount of time they were able / willing to commit. It might simply mean teaming up with an existing provider, or even working with the LEA. Out of interest, is future secondary school provision in the area an issue that the council is looking at?

[Pugwash]

There is also a shortage of older people's sheltered housing units to purchase and rent. There is room on the Dulwich Hospital site to house a school and a small amount of housing.

With Southwark PCT being dissolved (or may have been already) I am not sure who now owns the site - is it NHS London?

Having worked in the DH building for many years, we were surprised to hear after we were relocated near KCH that the surveyors found that the floor we were occupying was defective and was in danger of completely collapsing as joists etc had moved away from supporting wall/rotted. The team that were being rehoused in our old office had to wait almost a year until work could be completed to ensure the safety of the floor.

Would you really want children to be taught in a substandard building?

Being dark building with very few occupants, we were advised that we had to call security to escort us to the car park in the winter as there had been a number of attacks on staff at night. The alsmost empty building attracted many homeless people and drug addicts, some of whom could be very violent.

[sillywoman]

I think using the site as a base for a school was looked into some years ago now when the campaign for a proper local comprehensive school was looking for a suitable site (now The Charter). It wasn't feasible because the site is under some kind of deed which means it can only be used to benefit the health of the people of the borough - I think.

[Willard]

richfish Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Building a school based on a flawed consumerist

> concept of supposed parental choice (or

> control/segregation?)) and political fad would

> seem to me to be an unsustainable endeavour in the

> extreme regardless of education, place or site. A

> stark 21st century British contradiction - we are

> told to embrace the economic, social and cultural

> benefits of diversity but in school we seem to

> merrily perpetuate and reinforce social, religious

> and class divisions.

I did some filming at a couple of free schools recently: the Toby Young one in Hammersmith and one near Stockwell. I was really impressed by what I saw. The kids were mega disciplined, the teachers said they seemed to actually like having stricter boundaries where there is an absolute zero tolerance of any disruption in class. The teachers seemed really passionate about the schools. The curriculum offered things like Latin and other languages kids wouldn't get to learn otherwise. But what impressed me the most was that there is no selection process: if you fall within the catchment area and you apply, you're in. Explain to me how that is divisive, especially when the catchment areas are inner city areas like Hammersmith and Stockwell. The one in Stockwell is planning to open a boarding school for it's kids down in Sussex. All the kids we interviewed said they'd be up for going to it as they have hardly, if ever been to the countryside and wanted to experience life outside of a city.

It kind of does my head in to think about the philosophical and moral gymnastics that some left wing/liberal minded people have to perform in order to object to these schools.

[sillywoman]

Willard Wrote:

-I was really impressed by what

> I saw. The kids were mega disciplined, the

> teachers said they seemed to actually like having

> stricter boundaries where there is an absolute

> zero tolerance of any disruption in class. The

> teachers seemed really passionate about the

> schools. The curriculum offered things like Latin

> and other languages kids wouldn't get to learn

> otherwise. But what impressed me the most was that

> there is no selection process: if you fall within

> the catchment area and you apply, you're in.

>

Sounds just like 'The Charter'.

[Willard]

What's the charter?

[ed_pete]

The Charter School is a secondary state school located off Red Post Hill, about 1 mile from Lordship Lane, to the west of East Dulwich, roughly speaking.

[JMT]

There is an old school site just off Inverton Road in Nunhead that is earmarked for housing. However, Southwark are obliged to give first refusal for anyone wanting to start a free school. I can find out more if anybody is interested. It's a lovely old building set in its own beautiful grounds.

[westof]

> I did some filming at a couple of free schools

> recently: the Toby Young one in Hammersmith and

> one near Stockwell. I was really impressed by what

> I saw. The kids were mega disciplined, the

> teachers said they seemed to actually like having

> stricter boundaries where there is an absolute

> zero tolerance of any disruption in class. The

> teachers seemed really passionate about the

> schools. The curriculum offered things like Latin

> and other languages kids wouldn't get to learn

> otherwise.

Sounds like the Ark Academies... (Globe, Walworth, Evelyn Grace).

> But what impressed me the most was that

> there is no selection process: if you fall within

> the catchment area and you apply, you're in.

> Explain to me how that is divisive, especially

> when the catchment areas are inner city areas like

> Hammersmith and Stockwell.

Using catchment / distance can easily become selection-by-income once house prices near to the school start to rise - unless the school is completely surrounded by social housing, and London isn't like that.

[zephyr]

JMT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is an old school site just off Inverton Road

> in Nunhead that is earmarked for housing. However,

> Southwark are obliged to give first refusal for

> anyone wanting to start a free school. I can find

> out more if anybody is interested. It's a lovely

> old building set in its own beautiful grounds.

Is there?? where is that then?

[snowy]

At the junction of Inverton and Bellwood Roads?

[zephyr]

ummm that used to be the old church hall and is now residential properties.

There used to be a building on the corner of Inverton and Ivydale but that was demolished years ago and is now residential properties.

I cannot think of any old school properties off Inverton other than Ivydale school and Bredinghurst school (which is being rebuilt)

[Earl Aelfheah]

Hi JMT. If you could let me know exactly where it is that would be great.