Advice on Bugaboo Bee?

[nabz]

Gosh thank you everyone!! Your comments have ben seriously helpful :) me and my husband think a bugaboo bee may fit eat for us but hes not convinced the cocoon will be most comfortable and surpportive for our baby so we are now lookig at the cameleon! But then i dont drivr and the cameleon is quite heavy to carry? We went buggy shopping the other day and litrally i think bugaboos beat the market! They glide so easily unpike mama and papas one that i was going to get or even the icandy personally! I didnt mean to start an argument so sorry about that! Just want to learn more about the right buggy! How long does a child stay in te footmuff for? Is it a must buy?

[zeban]

DaveR Wrote:

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> Buggies are like cars. A boring Japanese or

> Korean one will do the job. But lots of people

> prefer a Golf. If you want a Bugaboo, get one.

> It will do the job and look good. There are other

> buggies that will do the job for quite a bit less

> dough.

The most sensible post on this thread!

Sorry nabz, it's not your fault, I did go off on one I will admit! The right buggy is the right one for you surely. I hope you find it and if it's a bugaboo that you want then get one. Personally I think they are used as a fashion accessory by some, and a status symbol by some, but then others think they're the best out there for their personal needs so go with what you want. Don't be pressurised into spending the money though if you don't have it but if you do go for it.

[Pickle]

Nabz, I had a footmuff for my cameleon, and used it almost all year round, so it was definitely worth it. You don't need to buy a Bugaboo one though, lots of the generic ones will fit.

The cameleon is quite heavy, but unless you're having to fold it constantly to carry upstairs etc you won't notice it. I just used to park mine in the hallway.

Good luck! Your pram is the one piece of baby kit that you'll use the most, so it is important to get it right.

P x

[amyw]

also you could always start with a second hand chameleon so you can see how you get on, then if you feel you made the wrong decision or the other would suit you better then you can resell and not lose too much if any money.

[StraferJack]

I know that to the outsider, or someone who might "dabble" in a little light research that the buggy/pram market is saturated with much the same product, with price differential sorting parents into different groups

But zeban, as someone who thought well of you when you started posting on the forum you are letting yourself down badly here. If you are reading this section as part of academic research then judging by your posts so far, the results will be poor

It is true that parents will end up buying lots of stuff they don't need - there is another thread live about such things at the moment. But a buggy is the thing you are going to see most of in the first 3 years of the child's life - forget status symbols, this thing has to work it's ass off and justify it's place. Doing a couple of test runs in pram shops is just not preperation

We picked up a cheap buggy as well as an expensive one - something we can leave at grandparents, take to festivals and the like. Functionally the same - but I only have to spend two days with the cheap one and I am selling organs just to get back to the good one.

The sheer effort and discomfort involved with the cheaper one is something I would not have believed prior to becoming a parent. So well-designed ergonimics costs money - who knew huh?

[jennyh]

I would simply say that if you are lacking in first-hand experience you shouldnt really comment with such a black and white viewpoint, it isnt helpful. If however you are bored enough to post with the intention of getting people irate then knock yourself out, we will gloss over it.

Good luck with the buggy hunt nabz, I am sure that the lovely mums of east dulwich would be very happy if you stopped them in the street to ask about their pushchair or to have a go! We really are not snobby, flashy and middle-class as zeban thinks!

I understand your concern about the cocoon but despite finding it less favourable than a carrycot, I do think it did a good job and my girl was very snug and warm as it literally does cocoon her unlike carry cots where you have to wrap them up more. Depends on what you want but the fact that you care so much about the pushchair no doubt means that your baby will have the best start for sure!

[hellosailor]

zeban Wrote:

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> So it is a fashion accessory then?! You've just

> admitted as much although you got immediately

> upset when someone else suggested it, because they

> were judging you! I guess they were judging you

> right, maybe it's that that bothers you all so

> much

>

> I think I've come to the conclusion now from

> reading this thread though that many Mum's with

> bugaboos are just frustrated, unhappy, and bored

> middle class stay at home Mum's who wish they

> could buy a pair of really expensive shoes and go

> back to their old lives but buy a really expensive

> buggy instead because they can no longer jusify

> buying the shoes to their husbands and to the

> other Mum's ;-)

Zeban,

I don't think I'd previously grasped that you actually don't have any children. The fact that you always seem to talk such piffle about parenthood always used to baffle me, as I presumed you did have children, but were simply bringing them up on a different planet to the rest of us. I suspect that someone who harbours such bile towards mothers may have some personal sadness that we aren't privy too (if not, your frequent vitriol towards mothers on this discussion board and yes amyw - this would be what we call trolling - is pretty pitiful)

I would like to extend a invitation to you to come to my flat, I shall ask some friends with a variety of different buggies to come too, and then you can try to get up my narrow flight of stairs with each buggy, including my bee, and then you can say which one you'd buy if you lived in my flat and if you ever, heaven forfend, have children. Are you game? Into the bargain you could disprove my suspicion that you are in fact a 5 foot 2" computer programmer called Colin who still lives with his mum and spends all his time playing with conkers in a room papered with superman wallpaper? ;-)

[jennyh]

hellosailor Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> zeban Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So it is a fashion accessory then?! You've just

> > admitted as much although you got immediately

> > upset when someone else suggested it, because

> they

> > were judging you! I guess they were judging you

> > right, maybe it's that that bothers you all so

> > much

> >

> > I think I've come to the conclusion now from

> > reading this thread though that many Mum's with

> > bugaboos are just frustrated, unhappy, and

> bored

> > middle class stay at home Mum's who wish they

> > could buy a pair of really expensive shoes and

> go

> > back to their old lives but buy a really

> expensive

> > buggy instead because they can no longer jusify

> > buying the shoes to their husbands and to the

> > other Mum's ;-)

>

>

> Zeban,

>

> I don't think I'd previously grasped that you

> actually don't have any children. The fact that

> you always seem to talk such piffle about

> parenthood always used to baffle me, as I presumed

> you did have children, but were simply bringing

> them up on a different planet to the rest of us. I

> suspect that someone who harbours such bile

> towards mothers may have some personal sadness

> that we aren't privy too (if not, your frequent

> vitriol towards mothers on this discussion board

> and yes amyw - this would be what we call trolling

> - is pretty pitiful)

> I would like to extend a invitation to you to come

> to my flat, I shall ask some friends with a

> variety of different buggies to come too, and then

> you can try to get up my narrow flight of stairs

> with each buggy, including my bee, and then you

> can say which one you'd buy if you lived in my

> flat and if you ever, heaven forfend, have

> children. Are you game? Into the bargain you could

> disprove my suspicion that you are in fact a 5

> foot 2" computer programmer called Colin who still

> lives with his mum and spends all his time playing

> with conkers in a room papered with superman

> wallpaper? ;-)

Ah, the best. Thanks for making me actually snort with laughter.

[sillywoman]

Zeban, you're a hoot. You're betraying your ignorance of the realities of life with a baby with every word you're posting on this thread which makes me quite concerned of your implication that you're in some line of work or research in this area & consider yourself to have credentials. Scary stuff.

DaveR: Interesting analogy, but flawed. Maybe it would be more appropriate to use a shopping trolley analogy. Imagine pushing a full trolley around the streets for several hours a day. If you had the choice between using a shopping trolley that did the job, but hurt your back because it wasn't ergonomic and with a seat that wasn't comfortable for your baby to be in, but was only ?1 a day; or a trolley that was better designed, more comfortable for your back, and more comfortable for your baby so they slept longer but it cost ?2 a day; how many would go for the more expensive option whenever they could? A pushchair isn't like a car because there's comparatively very little physical effort involved in driving a car. the physical toll on a Mums body from using a cheaper pushchair is significant (I've got the bad back to prove it!. Your car analogy is too simplistic.

[ClareC]

Nabs, if your considering the Cameleon now, it is a fantastic buggy!

My daughter slept really well in it and it's lovely to push. Its major flaw being it doesn't fold in one piece and doesn't fold very small.

This is no problem at all if you have the space to leave it up all the time, and the main use is walking around locally.

If you go anywhere in the car it takes a lot of space up in the boot and its not at all practical to fold it on the bus. After 6 months I bought a Maclaren techno to live in the boot of the car and use on busses if there was ever a need and for car trips where a buggy handy but not going to get much use.

This worked really well until I needed a double buggy!

I would recommend going somewhere like John Lewis that has a good selection to compare and having a try out, also as someone mentioned earlier, there are plenty of mums locally who would be happy for you to try out their buggies.

Whatever you decide, there is a good second hand market :-)

[hellosailor]

-------------------------------------------------------

> Zeban, you're a hoot. You're betraying your

> ignorance of the realities of life with a baby

> with every word you're posting on this thread

> which makes me quite concerned of your implication

> that you're in some line of work or research in

> this area & consider yourself to have credentials.

> Scary stuff.

>

Don't worry Sillywoman, out of interest in her implied credentials just had a look back at Zeban's previous posts and her academic background is that she 'went to uni and did a post grad' changed her mind about teacher training, and she's now a trainee hairdresser....don't think she'll be advising the government on anything child related anytime soon ;-)

[Audrey]

Reiterate positive comments re the cameleon, I have nothing bad to say about it. I have had it on every mode of transport imaginable, I use the bus ALL the time (don't have a car), and have never had an issue (bus can only take 2 buggies, no matter what brand/size they are). It is wide, but you soon learn which buses to get on via the back door. The baby takes her daytime naps in it, so its being well utilised, and useful for overnight stays away from home. I'm taking good care of it so I expect it to sell well when the time comes, so its a win win as far as I'm concerned.

[zeban]

Yes I have a Master's in Child Development not because I wanted to become a teacher but because I'm interested in the subject. I can't say I'm interested in the paraphernalia but the prices of bugaboos are completely unfathomable and if they are indeed the best for your back, especially for someone who walks alot and doesn't drive as you've implied, then surely they might be more affordable for the less well off who won't have cars and have to do alot of walking! I know prams in general are incredibly expensive, which I find strange (I wonder the same at mass produced furniture). I think they are that price because they have become a status symbol for the middle class. The Mum's around Clapham pretty much all have bugaboos and pretty much all drive 4 x 4's so they're not doing much walking I know that!

[midivydale]

Nabz, I am in the same boat as you and its a minefield of pushchairs out there...not an easy choice for first time mums is it? My partner and I are leaning towards the Icandy at the moment as I personally like the idea of a carry cot. We all have different ideas, needs and circumstances so we got to find one that will suit our babies and our own needs, right?

What I have noticed is that everything baby related so easily becomes a heated debate. Hey ladies, what happend to sisterhood and women solidarity?

Good luck with the pushchair hunt Nabz, let us know how you get on;-)

[ClareC]

zeban Wrote:

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> Yes I have a Master's in Child Development not

> because I wanted to become a teacher but because

> I'm interested in the subject. I can't say I'm

> interested in the paraphernalia but the prices of

> bugaboos are completely unfathomable and if they

> are indeed the best for your back, especially for

> someone who walks alot and doesn't drive as you've

> implied, then surely they might be more affordable

> for the less well off who won't have cars and have

> to do alot of walking! I know prams in general are

> incredibly expensive, which I find strange (I

> wonder the same at mass produced furniture). I

> think they are that price because they have become

> a status symbol for the middle class. The Mum's

> around Clapham pretty much all have bugaboos and

> pretty much all drive 4 x 4's so they're not doing

> much walking I know that!

If you are interested in children but have no interest in the paraphernalia that goes with them, why comment on a thread asking advice when you had none to give, simply an unnecessary and nasty comment to make?

So now you "know" anyone with a 4x4 doesn't walk much? How do you know this?

A more positive outlook in life and not making assumptions and generalisations about people goes a long way!

[DaveR]

"DaveR: Interesting analogy, but flawed. Maybe it would be more appropriate to use a shopping trolley analogy. Imagine pushing a full trolley around the streets for several hours a day. If you had the choice between using a shopping trolley that did the job, but hurt your back because it wasn't ergonomic and with a seat that wasn't comfortable for your baby to be in, but was only ?1 a day; or a trolley that was better designed, more comfortable for your back, and more comfortable for your baby so they slept longer but it cost ?2 a day; how many would go for the more expensive option whenever they could? A pushchair isn't like a car because there's comparatively very little physical effort involved in driving a car. the physical toll on a Mums body from using a cheaper pushchair is significant (I've got the bad back to prove it!. Your car analogy is too simplistic."

Interesting analogy, but flawed. It assumes that you have to spend ?2 (or in the actual context of this thread, the cost of a Bugaboo Bee - i.e. about ?500) or you get something that is inherently less fit for purpose. Which in the case of buggies is clearly b@llocks, whether you personally made a bad choice in the past or not.

[MichelleT]

We have the Bee + and love it. Neither of us drives, and I also carry my toddler in a sling; I bought the Bee because it suited our life. I wanted a small buggy as we were in a one-bed flat when Baby T was born, I wanted something I could easily get on and off buses and around local shops, and carry up stairs on my own if need be, and could be facing us when he was little. I also wanted a buggy that would have good resale value. I got John Lewis vouchers from work when I went on maternity leave and that combined with presents from friends meant that the buggy only cost me about ?100, so I should actually make a profit when I sell it :). I bought a JL footmuff for ?16 instead of the cocoon, but he was in a sling til he was three months old anyway.

Friends who had their babies a few years ago all love pushing the Bee. Its expensive because its well designed. We have a Maclaren as a spare buggy and I hate it; it weighs less than the Bee but feels so heavy.

[zeban]

Bugaboo is a brand that has middle class connotations and associations attached to it. To ignore this when assessing the price of them is to be naive; to say they're expensive just because they're well designed is far too simplistic. They may well be well designed but the price tags of some of them- ?800-?1000 show that they are clearly targetting a certain type of person. I'm not saying all those who buy them though are buying into the status of the brand but some certainly are.

[Bellenden Belle]

zeban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bugaboo is a brand that has middle class

> connotations and associations attached to it. To

> ignore this when assessing the price of them is to

> be naive; to say they're expensive just because

> they're well designed is far too simplistic. They

> may well be well designed but the price tags of

> some of them- ?800-?1000 show that they are

> clearly targetting a certain type of person. I'm

> not saying all those who buy them though are

> buying into the status of the brand but some

> certainly are.

Zeban you're a stuck record. Time to bow out gracefully surely?

[zeban]

No problem. I've made my point!

[helena handbasket]

Yep you certainly have.

Zeban, was your Masters in Education or Psychology? I ask because I've been reviewing some old Vygotskian theories for personal reasons, and after years of teaching and parenting I'm much more skeptical than when I was a student. But I only have a B.Ed/B.A. Psych so feel that I'm maybe not qualified to interpret his work and thought maybe you have some insights? It's some research in social learning I'm doing for my son's teacher, feeling a bit in over my head.

Sorry to hijack, wasn't sure where else to ask......... mea culpa

Oh yeah, I heart Bugaboo! You either spend big once or you end up buying so many cheaper ones you could have just saved your sanity and bought the good one first. A good friend is on her FOURTH baby and finally gave in and bought one after all these years of cheap buggies. I don't regret a penny I've spent on buggies.

[hellosailor]

zeban Wrote:

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> No problem. I've made my point!

Yep, yep, you sure schooled us there Zeban - thank god there are people with the twin credentials of being childless and childish to tell us the score about motherhood.

My theory, for what it's worth, is that fed up with having to hold your tongue at perceived slights by the '4X4 driving' mummies in the Clapham hairdressers in which you're currently training, lest you get the sack, you have to scurry home and vent your spleen against the faceless mothers here in the family room. But then I don't have an 'academic background' in psychology like you do so I'm probably wrong.

[helena handbasket]

Can I just say that every time time I see the name "hellosailor" it makes me giggle? I like it very much.

[Mellors]

I've had a gazillion different buggies, but for #3 I bought a Bee. I'm all about practicality not looks and its a dream, I absolutely love the fact its light, nippy, easy to fold etc etc. I also love being able to clip the car seat straight onto it - anything to avoid waking a sleeping baby!

Its the old style and cost me ?180 on Ebay - given I'll use it many, many times a day for c. 3 years I think thats a bargain. Also bear in mind if you buy a good brand like Bugaboo secondhand you can often sell them on after for what you paid for them, so net cost zero. Not breaking the bank at all.

[bluesuperted]

My secondhand Bugaboo was zero (?X paid - ?X sold = ?0 cost). I hardly used mine but it was still the biggest baby bargain I bought and a lovely buggy for all concerned.

Some people are just savvy. read the reviews, get a good piece of kit (secondhand) and sell it on, not brand-driven or status seeking at all.

Also, I studied in a child development related field and one of the most important things we learnt was: the parent has a hell of a lot of insight, listen to it or ignore it at your peril. You don't know what it's like to be the parent of the child you are looking at/studying/assessing/pontificating about on an anonymous forum. We got docked A LOT of marks for example if we forgot to include them in any listing of the 'multidisciplinary team' surrounding the child. You wouldn't score very highly with mass generalisations based on class and culture either I'm afraid.

Original poster - I think the Bee looks like a great buggy and might go for that one in future if I was wanting a buggy for a new baby. But my cameleon was very nice too. Just wasn't enough like a sling for me...