Man stabbed killed lordship lane / East Dulwich grove

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> There are a couple of people here that need to

> show some respect after what has happened in our

> area.

> Somebody has lost their life.

> STOP the bickering and point scoring.

>

If you are referring to me, I am well aware that somebody has lost their life.

I know two people who knew him.

I find the whole thing extremely upsetting.

However this thread was not set up as, and did not develop as, a thread only to offer condolences.

[uncleglen]

I don't understand why these shops have to be open all night anyway...it just encourages people to wander about unnecessarily into the early hours and there are not enough cops around now...

[Jules-and-Boo]

Is there a justgiving page? I'd like to offer my support to the family in a practical way.

[Sue]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> Is there a justgiving page? I'd like to offer my

> support to the family in a practical way.

That's a very nice thought, Jules-and-Boo.

[basejo]

This is a Great idea, how do we set-up a just giving page in order to help the family?

[edcam]

Spot on DulwichFox. For once I agree with both you and Louisa.

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> There are a couple of people here that need to

> show some respect after what has happened in our

> area.

> Somebody has lost their life.

> STOP the bickering and point scoring.

>

> DulwichFox

[Charles Martel]

https://www.facebook.com/67241244613/posts/10157369402824614/

[goldfinger]

Another stabbing in Peckham last night, where are the bloody police. This government needs to focus on bring back the police and stop talking about BREXIT. There are too many families grieving and too many young lives taken away. My condolenses go to all those families. Now we are scared to send our kids out when its dark, what is this world coming to that we have to live in fear because the government do not care about daily life. Bring back the Police on the roads.

[dbboy]

And if people didn't carry weapons and freely use them.

[JoeLeg]

goldfinger Wrote:

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> Another stabbing in Peckham last night, where are

> the bloody police. This government needs to focus

> on bring back the police and stop talking about

> BREXIT. There are too many families grieving and

> too many young lives taken away. My condolenses go

> to all those families. Now we are scared to send

> our kids out when its dark, what is this world

> coming to that we have to live in fear because the

> government do not care about daily life. Bring

> back the Police on the roads.

This. Very much this.

A report out today states that 90% of police officers feel they are undermanned. I frequent a couple of forums with a fair number of serving and former police officers on it and they put it in much blunter terms.

Theresa May is openly loathed by the rank and file police (and also by the higher ups though on the quiet) because she gutted them financially when she was Home Sec and now they have to carry the can for rising crime. It?s undoubtable that we need the police (and the other emergency services) funded much better, though unfortunately that might not necessarily have stopped this senseless attack.

Apologies for thread drift, but there is an undoubted link between cutting police and rising crime.

[Sue]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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It?s undoubtable that we

> need the police (and the other emergency services)

> funded much better, though unfortunately that

> might not necessarily have stopped this senseless

> attack.

>

Agreed, though possibly more police in the area might have at least meant the perpetrator was caught quickly (I don't think he has been?).

[binkylilyput]

Mental ill health and violent behaviour is not intrinsically nor statistically linked. A VERY small percentage of people who commit violent acts have mental health difficulties. The research around this is extensive. What research and analysis does show is that people with mental health difficulties are more vulnerable and at risk of violence being perpetrated against them than your average person. Studies also discuss how the common public perception and tendency to link violent crime to mental health is partly born out of repeated inflammatory media coverage, and also because when there are "random acts of violence" people are very disturbed and distressed by it and therefore seek to find an explanation that would make it feel less random....... because when things are random then they feel out of our control and have no reason and therefore not preventable and could happen to ourselves.

I agree that speculation will not help anything at all with this case and so I'm not entering into it. But I feel strongly that it is important to counteract misunderstandings and misperceptions so they are hopefully not continued.

This poor man, his friends and family- how tragic. Also for the shopkeepers who were witnesses.....and for the Lordship Lane community in general. So awful.

[Penguin68]

Theresa May is openly loathed by the rank and file police (and also by the higher ups though on the quiet) because she gutted them financially when she was Home Sec and now they have to carry the can for rising crime.

I think you'll find she is hated because she stood up to the police unions and, more particularly, because she tried to stop indiscriminate stop and search. As Home Secretary she would have been bidding for more funds - it was Osborne and the Treasury taking them away. No spending Minister tries to reduce their spend unless forced. Their spend is how they judge their worth. It was the stop and search move which really rankled - which she did for the best reasons as that was still a practice where discrimination against minorities could be exercised by the Met. And was.

[Penguin68]

Just for clarity, I raised the mental health issue not as a speculation about this dreadful case, but as a reflection that we would often prefer to see mental health issues as a cause, rather than wickedness. Because you can't help being ill, but you can help being wicked. If something happens because of illness, you neither wish to lay blame, nor to consider that what happened is symptomatic of a locale or particularly group. If lightning strikes it is random and without blame. Of course the mentally ill are more frequently victims.

[JoeLeg]

Penguin68

>

> I think you'll find she is hated because she stood

> up to the police unions and, more particularly,

> because she tried to stop indiscriminate stop and

> search. As Home Secretary she would have been

> bidding for more funds - it was Osborne and the

> Treasury taking them away. No spending Minister

> tries to reduce their spend unless forced. Their

> spend is how they judge their worth. It was the

> stop and search move which really rankled - which

> she did for the best reasons as that was still a

> practice where discrimination against minorities

> could be exercised by the Met. And was.

Now I?ve got no argument with the fact that she took on the unions and dealt with S+S; absolutely it was an issue rife with discrimination.

However, she was Home Sec when the funds got reduced, and frankly I - personally - feel she carries the can for that. The Treasury is too easy a target. She was in charge, she?s responsible.

[rendelharris]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> I think you'll find she is hated because she stood

> up to the police unions and, more particularly,

> because she tried to stop indiscriminate stop and

> search.

That's simply not so, the police have disliked her since 2012 when she first imposed 20% cuts and she was booed and heckled at the Police Federation conference. In revenge for that she gave a speech at the 2014 conference accusing the police of all manner of things. She didn't start on cutting S&S until 2015. The antipathy between TM and the police, however it's developed over time, was not started by her "standing up to the police unions", it started because she cut the policing budget by 20% - the effects of which we are seeing every day on the streets.

[Jules-and-Boo]

which in real terms is a loss of around 20,000 police officers.

[Jellybeanz]

What a complete fool this man sounds.

The frightening thing is that these incidents can happen any time, any place, anywhere. Tory police cuts are what need addressing and SOON!

I wonder if he would make such ignorant statements if he had known the man. The victim was innocent by all accounts simply refused someone a cigarette and lost his life.

Tragic. Full stop.

HelBel65 Wrote:

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> Terrible news.

>

> I was a bit taken aback to hear Andrew Castle on

> LBC this morning referring to ED as ?a rough area?

> where you ?really have to watch yourself? Maybe

> he?s right after this.

[Jellybeanz]

Would expect no less from LBC. Shame we don't have a more balanced London talk radio station.

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> HelBel65 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Terrible news.

> >

> > I was a bit taken aback to hear Andrew Castle

> on

> > LBC this morning referring to ED as ?a rough

> area?

> > where you ?really have to watch yourself? Maybe

> > he?s right after this.

>

> I heard that too. He referenced it being near

> Camberwell and said something like ?you have to

> watch yourself down there? so I get the impression

> it was a bit of a generic ?south London?s dodgy?

> type comment rather than anything based on his

> knowledge / impressions of ED specifically.

[Jellybeanz]

Could not agree more.

This truly is an illustration that these type of incidents can happen anywhere.

East Dulwich is a lovely area, full of lovely people (and yes not perfect obviously but very multicultural and people generally are happy and friendly round and about, if you need help people would often stop).

I have always felt safe, even at night when it's dark, so this is very shocking.

rendelharris Wrote:

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> snoopy17 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Andrew castle is right it is a rough area

> nothing

> > fancy, inbetween Peckham and Camberwell. only

> > rich people consider it a posh area, its

> nothing

> > special to everyone else.

>

>

> ED is nothing like in between Peckham and

> Camberwell, they're both north of it. If anything

> we're between Herne Hill and Nunhead.

> Furthermore, it's nothing like a "rough" area -

> I've lived in some in South London, including

> Coldharbour Lane when the Yardies were in full

> control and shootings were commonplace, there's no

> comparison. Tragic events like this morning's

> just point up how rare they actually are in this

> neck of the woods, and there's no need for

> everyone to go overboard as they did on the

> (thankfully now deleted, good shout admin) other

> thread about this.

[uncleglen]

I see the PM has managed to find ?6.5m for Venezuela though....on top of all the other overseas aid dished out to countries that should not have it...

[snowy]

binkylilyput Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mental ill health and violent behaviour is not

> intrinsically nor statistically linked. A VERY

> small percentage of people who commit violent acts

> have mental health difficulties. The research

> around this is extensive. What research and

> analysis does show is that people with mental

> health difficulties are more vulnerable and at

> risk of violence being perpetrated against them

> than your average person. Studies also discuss how

> the common public perception and tendency to link

> violent crime to mental health is partly born out

> of repeated inflammatory media coverage, and also

> because when there are "random acts of violence"

> people are very disturbed and distressed by it and

> therefore seek to find an explanation that would

> make it feel less random....... because when

> things are random then they feel out of our

> control and have no reason and therefore not

> preventable and could happen to ourselves.

>

> I agree that speculation will not help anything at

> all with this case and so I'm not entering into

> it. But I feel strongly that it is important to

> counteract misunderstandings and misperceptions so

> they are hopefully not continued.

Couldn't agree more - ref tops like the Sun used inflammatory headlines like "Schizo knife killer" for years, until Rethink and others lobbied them with better reporting guidelines:

https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/media-centre/responsible-reporting

Specifically: https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/media-centre/responsible-reporting/mind-your-language

[JohnL]

But a "public health" approach to violence is being used in some places. Is it social health rather than mental health we should mention ?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/24/violent-crime-cured-rather-than-punished-scottish-violence-reduction-unit

[Jules-and-Boo]

It's definitely more Social Health than mental health.

Violent crime is fuelled by poverty, lack of social support services and education (due to lack of funding).

Mental health is not the main driver of violent crime.

Lack of police and they perception that crime will not be punished (we see that enough) are also factors.

[lavender27]

Stop all this bickering and speculation and pray for these poor victims of violent crimes and also pray for the nasty people who do others harm.

Pass this candle on in unity.