The New Routemaster

[DulwichFox]

New Routmaster

Each Bus costs ?1.4M ( Regular Double Decker ?190,000 )

?1,400,000

1 Oyster ticket ride = ?1.3p

?1,400,000 = 1,076,923 rides.

2,950 rides a day every day for 1 year

295 rides a day every day for 10 years

and that does not pay for Fuel and Maintenance, Insurance tax, Driver & Conductor pay.

Does this make commercial sence.

Fox.

[Undisputedtruth]

The new routemasters do not have scale of economy applied to their manufacturing costs yet.

[Chippy Minton]

No sense whatsoever. It's a Boris vanity project.

The January 2012 Finance Committee papers note that final cost is expected to be ?11.065m, so with only nine on order the economy of scale is terrible and the revenue they pull in will be lower than that on normal double deckers due to increased fare evasion.

The delivery is running late, but the first two have been rushed into service because Boris isn't allowed to use them for political capital after 20 March for purdah reasons associated with May's election, so he's trying to make the best of it now.

[DulwichFox]

We all remember the old routemasters and previous buses.

People have always evaded fares on those buses.

Often conductors did not bother collecting fares especially at the end of their shifts.

ATT that was mainly due to them counting up their takings to save time when they got back to the garage.

Do not know if the new buses are Oyster only or conductors will collect money.

Fox.

[Chippy Minton]

It will be Oyster - conductors won't collect any money. I'm not sure if they will be checking Oyster cards. Also, they won't be on the routes after 7pm.

[Applespider]

Saw one today at Victoria when I nipped out for lunch. I like it. I loved the old Routemaster for making London feel more special and unlike every other double-decker city in the world. I like this one for the same reason. It's still more or less a prototype so until we've got a sense of how many may be ordered so that the R&D costs can be offset and economies of scale reached, I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss it out of hand for being a vanity project. However, if it does turn out to be a reliability, accident prone lemon and no more ever get ordered, then we may very well call it so in the future. I hope not though since it would be a pity that nothing else would every get through that would make London feel like a city where it's still possible to make obvious things like buses feel a little bit special.

[Otta]

It's a reaction to the tabloidesque hatred of bendy buses. Complete unnecessary waste of cash.

Will be cool though.

May eat in to the ?300m profit that TFL are apparently making (can someone explain why fares need to go up when they are making such q big profit?).

[Annette Curtain]

I do like a new 'un-bendy' Bus

http://www.huhmagazine.co.uk/images/uploaded/newbus_01.jpg

http://www.thetoyshop.com/media/toyshop/products/Bandai/Power%20Rangers%20Samurai/Main/Power-Rangers-Samurai-10cm-Figure---Red-Ranger-m.jpgThough it all looks a bit "Power Rangers" to me.

[malumbu]

Funnily enough the old Routemaster was almost redudant the day it went into production. They had to stretch the original version and then when single operator buses came on the scene it appeared uncompetitive. They were phasing them out forty years before they actually ended, but I believe that their reliability and simplicity were their saving grace. From a time when bus operators manufactured their own vehciles. Now seems bizarre.

They were responsible for a disproportionate amount of pollution.

So Boris, for a clever bloke who plays the fool to his own advantage this self-indulgant pro-Daily Mail nonsense is so shallow,and just stinks of the poularist interventionist nonsense that is flavour of the day. 2 weekly bin collection out in the shires? Duh duh goes the game buzzer, central government must intervene. A free for all for the last Olympics tickets - a pain but relatively fair. Duh duh goes the game buzzer, we must give it to those poor souls who were unsuccessful in not one but two attempts, whether they went for one ticket or a 1000, central government must intevene.

I think I may have digressed a little. Clearly I am still angry at the toffs who could have spoiled Friday night at the Goose.

[maxxi]

I like 'em. And they're tailor-made for sponsorship...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-M1Aarcp7NeVWXuCm_r6j_FveM8pQhc7yawp6nUAuUbkwMWYZ = http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3rPAt2_ie-AM3n6lg6Fp8KoKFPotdn5Pn-2GoTOc-QphwMGmKPA

[ratty]

I did not vote for them

[Jeremy]

I think they look great, but hard to justify the expense of commissioning a bus specifically for London in these times of austerity. Obviously the cost per unit will come down over time, but it will always be a much more expensive option than a stock double-decker.

[Brendan]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's a reaction to the tabloidesque hatred of

> bendy buses. Complete unnecessary waste of cash.

>

> Will be cool though.

>

> May eat in to the ?300m profit that TFL are

> apparently making (can someone explain why fares

> need to go up when they are making such q big

> profit?).

It won't eat into any of their profit. Cost will be passed on to the passengers. The right of companies to profit out of the provision of public services must and will be protected at all cost.

[Michael Palaeologus]

This assumes that they will only be bought by London bus operators.

As this bus must be the first bus produced with an eye to its aethetics, if it is reliable and cost effective to run, then it should sell well across the Globe.

All new vehicles cost alot to develop. Few of them provide an opportunity to grind political axes.

[El Pibe]

This is of course the argument given to justify the astronomic costs.

Last I heard (or watched on inside london or whatever it's called) interest was next to nowt.

Agreed they are pretty though.

It does rather seem to be the job of government these days to piss good cash up the wall for the 'big idea'.

At least the bus is a great deal cheaper than the Olympics, or millennium tent, or NHS IT, or Aircraftless carriers, or Eurofighter or........(ad nauseum)

[Annette Curtain]

Will we see one on a number 12 route anytime soon?

NO

:(

[Chippy Minton]

It's unlikely to sell well across the globe.

To start with, there aren't that many places that use double deckers and critically very few of these places are right hand drive. This is critical because the bus is asymmetric with the open platform and staircase layout at the back dictating the engine location on the right. The result is it is very difficult and expensive to convert to left hand drive operation with the doors on the right compared to its competitors.

[Jeremy]

I'd be amazed if it was sold overseas in any significant quantities!

[El Pibe]

I dunno Chippy.

Places that use [double deckers] that we have strong trade links with:

Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong, India, Japan.

Drive on the left:

errr Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong, India, Japan.

Places that we'll probably sell the routemaster to:

[Chippy Minton]

Actually, thinking about it, it's unlikely to sell anywhere else in this country either. It's a bespoke bus built for London, by one manufacturer with no competition.

[Chippy Minton]

I reckon Ireland would be the best bet EP, but they have a history of ordering from (successful) UK manufacturers that provide cheaper and greener buses than the new Routemaster.

I can't see the Japanese ordering UK manufacturered buses and India don't use double deckers widely. Hong Kong and Singapore might I suppose, but again if they can get cheaper, greener buses elsewhere it will need some selling to them.

[Jeremy]

El Pibe - have you ever taken a bus in India?!

[El Pibe]

Clearly people missed the implied tumbleweed in the list of countries we would end up selling it to.

And to answer your question, I have only ever travelled on the roads by taxi (rickety) or moped (very very very scary!!!!) in India.

[Chippy Minton]

Ah yes. Gotcha :-$

[Jeremy]

Tumbleweed noted!