European Elections

[diable rouge]

keano77 Wrote:

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> They certainly need our money Red Devil. Loads of

> big fat pensions and expense accounts to be paid

> for

Yep, one in particular springs to mind, a certain Mr N. Farage...

[kford]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Well kford, October 31 is 22 or 23 weeks away. As

> things stand your theories might soon be tested.

With any luck, we'll see sense and stay wedded to the world's biggest trading bloc.

If we don't, I'll suspect you and all the other Let's-go-WTO loonies will go very quiet, or, more likely, start blaming everyone but yourselves for the mess you've got us into.

[keano77]

Ever noticed how frightened children cling to mother?s skirt?

Just saying

🙂

[kford]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Ever noticed how frightened children cling to

> mother?s skirt?

>

> Just saying

>

> 🙂

Grow up, man. Seriously.

[diable rouge]

kford Wrote:

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> or, more

> likely, start blaming everyone but yourselves for

> the mess you've got us into.

The betrayal narrative started yonks ago, and that's all that Farage has dished out during this election, no policies, just the language of betrayal. Populism is easy solutions to complex problems and when they don't work it's the fault of others, that they weren't carried out properly, that they didn't 'believe' in them enough. A comforting lie is easier to sell than an uncomfortable truth. Much easier for the modern day careerist politician to carry on citing the imaginary 'will of the people' when in fact they should be telling the country the uncomfortable truth that what was promised was simply undeliverable...

[Jules-and-Boo]

Let's face it, Tories will be lucky to get one seat, BP are likely to get most of the seats but not all.

It means that the Tories have well and truly hung themselves, not just their handling Brexit but all the other things they've done. If BP win, it means that there is a huge number of people who want to leave, so a 2nd Reform is risky for Remainets, as the might not win again. It does not define the terms of how we would leave. It would be foolish to leave on solely WTO terms.... so, really back to square one. But worse as it would prove no strong confidence in our government at all.

[DulwichLondoner]

lilolil Wrote:

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> Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps someone on

> the forum can enlighten me...

> Why, when I didn't have a polling card and only

> gave my name and address was I not asked for

> identification??

The tricky part is: if you wanted to ask for ID, what identification would you even ask for, in a country in which there is no compulsory form of ID?

Passports and driving licences would presumably be accepted. But what about those people who have neither? Plus driving licences do not show citizenship.

If you think of it, this (the lack of compulsory ID and lack of a population register) is the key reason behind the Windrush scandal, which could have NEVER happened in most countries in continental Europe, as they tend to have compulsory ID and a population register, often listing whether you are a citizen or a foreign resident in the country.

In fact, how do you even prove citizenship without holding a passport? Windrush has shown that, in many cases, you don't - indeed British citizens were deported illegally!

It's also why foreign parents (especially European) of children born here and entitled to British citizenship are strongly advised to apply for a British passport straight away, since proving the settled status of the parents, which entitles the children to citizenship, can be hard if not impossible if done many years after birth.

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Not ideal I grant you but if Parliament cannot get

> its act together we will crash out in October no

> matter what the prima donnas think they?ve ruled

> out. Macron?s in no mood for interminable

> extensions.

>

> WTO though would apply in the two-year extension

> period while our future relationship is

> negotiated.

>

> Who will be negotiating the future relationship?

> After today?s elections will Farage be involved?

Only if he succeeds in a General Election and enters a coalition IMHO.

A General Election is unavoidable now - probably the Autumn.

[JohnL]

I'm quite happy for Boris to come in and we all give him as much rope as he wants.

[JohnL]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> Let's face it, Tories will be lucky to get one

> seat, BP are likely to get most of the seats but

> not all.

> It means that the Tories have well and truly hung

> themselves, not just their handling Brexit but all

> the other things they've done. If BP win, it means

> that there is a huge number of people who want to

> leave, so a 2nd Reform is risky for Remainets, as

> the might not win again. It does not define the

> terms of how we would leave. It would be foolish

> to leave on solely WTO terms.... so, really back

> to square one. But worse as it would prove no

> strong confidence in our government at all.

The deal is still on the table as far as the EU is concerned and if we go WTO/No Deal and then want to negotiate a free trade deal with them at any future point - then we must accept the deal.

So any referendum may as well include what has already been negotiated, remain and no deal on a STV. I still believe there are big security issues with No Deal that we are not privy too as they are too sensitive.

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> The deal is still on the table as far as the EU is

> concerned...

Worth noting that as a condition of the extension the WA cannot be reopened, so hopefully when Johnson et al start spouting such nonsense, the political journos point this out. Also, by the time a new leader is elected and with the summer recess, there will be no time to get any deal or even no deal through before the extension ends. But recent history tells us this will all be ignored and we'll get weeks of hard Brexiters promising yet more undeliverable, comforting lies to the Brexit supporters. This piece written by David Allen Green just after the last GE on why May would fail stands up well...https://www.ft.com/content/a46d09b5-e2da-398f-9f04-130764b56427

[diable rouge]

Also worth noting regarding whoever the Tories elect as leader...

The Cabinet Manual says that once a PM resigns ''The Sovereign will invite the person who appears most likely to be able to command the confidence of the House to serve as PM''

If that is a hard Brexiter, especially a No Deal one like Johnson, then I can think of a few Tories who won't support such a person. With such a slim majority in the HoC, it looks like what has dogged Brexit all along will also be a problem with whoever they elect, in that if you appease one side of the Brexit divide you alienate the other side.

And if Johnson wins and calls an election, he's skating on thin ice, at the last election his majority was halved down to 5k, throw in a rejuvenated Lib Dem party and the Brexit party and that could disappear very quickly. More fun and games ahead people...:)

[peckman]

Im a remainer but getting to the point of thinking let the brexiteers completely fuck it up .. all keep our head down for 5 or so years until people wake up and realise

[DulwichFox]

peckman Wrote:

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> Im a remainer but getting to the point of thinking

> let the brexiteers completely @#$%& it up .. all

> keep our head down for 5 or so years until people

> wake up and realise

What is the point of the UK having General Elections to choose a new Government or PM.

if we then pay ?Billions to the E.U. to make Laws for us and decide / dictate what we are allowed to do.

The UK Great Britain managed for centuries to run our own affairs and after Brexit we will do so again.

Fox

[Sephiroth]

What laws have the made for us foxy? What is we want to do but can?t?

And you are aware that we pay but also gain back right?

Why after 3 years won?t facts penetrate?

[DulwichFox]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> What laws have the made for us foxy? What is we

> want to do but can?t?

>

> And you are aware that we pay but also gain back

> right?

>

> Why after 3 years won?t facts penetrate?

The E.U. does not directly make rules for The U.K.

But the rules The U.K. Government makes are subjected to the scrutiny of the E.U.

and the restrictions they impose on such rules.

They have the final word.

[Sephiroth]

It?s a collective decision foxy. We are part of the process

What you and your fellow leavers are doing is depriving us of any day. We will need deals with eu, USA, China, India etc. And we will have to follow their rules because we will be desperate. Oh and those rules will preclude other rules

So if we accept American meat, we close off European access

Everything you want leaves us worse off. We had by some distance the sweetest deal. But still. Rule Britannia and all that what what

[diable rouge]

Guess what DF, if we Brexit and set up separate trade deals we'll be subject to lots of rules/caveats/restrictions etc, especially from big hitters like the US and China who will really be able to turn the screw on li'l ol' UK, assuming we are still the UK. Welcome to the world of global trading...

[DulwichFox]

The E.U is unlikely to survive another 10 years.

We are getting out at the right time. Others WILL follow.

[Sephiroth]

Name them foxy

I?m calling bullshit on this prediction. (Same with all leaver predictions from last 4 years. ?Easiest deal in history?. ?They will be queuing up to make a deal with us? etc etc ??)

You are spouting dank nonsense from there far reaches of the internet/YouTube

You know nothing

You have a grudge.

You can not make a simple case without spouting memes

You are shitting the bed for the rest of us after you are gone

Please stop

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> The E.U is unlikely to survive another 10 years.

>

> We are getting out at the right time. Others WILL

> follow.

What are you basing this statement on, exactly?

[Seabag]

🕳 and we?re back in the fox hole.

I get fed up with the laziness of people?s arbitrary use of 10

Why not 9 or 11?

It?s a bit like when people call me up and say, I want a discount

?Give me 10% off and we have a deal? to which my thoughts are that 10% represents their level of competence, any more complex thinking is beyond them.

And we?re the same here, grabbing at a figure and gluing some random outcome to it.

Consistent though.

[keano77]

Good point Seabag.

At least the EU has the bare-faced cheek to make up more ludicrous figures, eg ?39 Billion divorce payment.

That?s three tens and a nine thrown in for some more dinners.

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

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> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The E.U is unlikely to survive another 10 years.

>

> >

> > We are getting out at the right time. Others

> WILL

> > follow.

>

>

> What are you basing this statement on, exactly?

WHY do I have to Justify EVERY comment I post to you. ??

Fox

[Sephiroth]

I dunno keano. I reckon a whole bunch of documents will have been signed, and will be legally binding with smart people able to examine them if there is any get out

Of course we could just listen to another sad-sack with a worrying YouTube history on an Internet forum and say it?s made up