Do you know?

[computedshorty]

Living localy you sometimes find things that puzzle you.

One is;

" Where has number 126 Landcroft Road gone?"

There is a logical explanation do you know what it is?

As this web might be closed for a time this could give you time to find out.

[Jah Lush]

Bomb damage?

[Brendan]

Disney Land?

[Loz]

Gang activity.

[Loz]

Looking at Google streetview, I'd guess that when they built (the rather newer) 118-124 they were wider than the original buildings (like 116) and 126 ceased to be as otherwise they'd have to renumber the entire street.

Was this a doodlebug site?

[computedshorty]

Pre VI & VII Bombing.

Early in the war the Blitz many bombs were dropped locally, a string of bombs were dropped in line,

one between Landell?s Road & Crystal Palace Road,

one between Landcroft Road & Lordship Lane,

one in Beauval Road facing Milo Road,

One at the bottom end of Dovercourt Road, near the School Fields.

The one between Landcroft Road & Lordship Lane was six three story houses were bombed here, numbers 116 to 126, five were demolished soon after being bombed, leaving number 116 just a shell with a roof, then a Emergency Water Brick Water tank was built there, until after the war.

Planning was applied to build five house?s in the place of all six, there was a reason that a Public Passageway must remain, so number 116 did not get demolished but restored to its former state.

So just four new two story terraced houses were built with the passage between 116 and 118, this was a public Passage, it has now been incorporated with 118.

This left no space for number 126., hence no number 126.

So where is 126 Landcroft Road?

It was allocated to the Knoyle Street development Deptford a continuation of Cold Blow Lane.

It was made into a pair of Semi Detached , Numbered 82 and 84 Knoyle Street. The roof line was slightly different.

It did get built there as I worked on it. as an Apprentice Carpenter.

[Loz]

Of course it could be that 126 was actually built and is the real-life site of 12 Grimmauld Place in the Harry Potter books. A few carefully chosen words and a wave of a stick and it might just reappear.

That's something to fool your kids with.

[computedshorty]

Posible but just to confirm look on Google Maps 184 Knoyle St.

[jim_the_chin]

76 Landells Road is missing too - there's a gap opposite me for three terrace houses with two 50's houses there.

I've always wanted to plot the bomb damage to track the path of bombs from single planes. Where did you get your 'string' from computedshorty?

[computedshorty]

Jim if you go to the houses that back on to them in Ctystal Palace Road the were rebuilt the same time.

If you get a map of the area you can draw a line to connect them.

I cant place the time but I was there.

This is my memory.

Memories

Autumn 1940: The blitz.

?

Just after my ninth birthday the German planes came, bombing all around. We could see them coming in the distance in formation, the big ones in the middle, and the fighters outside. As they came they left a trail of vapour from their engines. The noise was deafening. The guns in the nearby parks sent up tracers. The outside smaller planes were much faster, fighting with our planes, leaving white criss-cross trails in the sky.

?

When the bombers dropped their bombs, we could see the bombs leave the planes in a row, then twist and turn , as they spread out and fall, whistling down to explode. It was time to into the shelter as even if the planes passed overhead the shells fired up at the enemy aircraft splintered and fell as shrapnel, jagged fragments that could cut you to pieces.

?

We were in the Andersen shelter. It was cold with only a candle to see by. After a time the iron sides would run with condensation. It ran down onto our bedding. We were very crowded in there, all ten of us, If somebody needed to go the toilet they had to step over all of us to get out of the shelter to go back to the house. I shall never understand why, with the shelter made of iron and covered in earth, the door opening had only a piece of sacking hanging down to cover it, with no protection from the direction at all.

?

We spent many days and nights in the shelter listening to the drone of loaded planes coming, then the whistling as the bombs fell. With each blast earth fell through the ill-fitting ends of the shelter. The vibration was constant, as if the whole shelter moved, with the noise of the guns firing all the time, and the scream of an aircraft as it plunged down to earth, then the explosion as it hit. Night time was the worst. As there was a blackout every explosion lit up the inside of the shelter, and when a building burned the inside of the shelter glowed red. You could smell the burnt sugar from Tate & Lyle?s and the acid smell from Carson's Vinegar Factory.

?

One bombing raid was very bad, Price?s Candle Factory had been hit and caught fire. The workers had taken cover in the cellars below the factory. The stocks of wax in the yard melted with the heat and a river of boiling wax found its way down to the cellars where the workers sheltered, Many were killed. After the fire was put out , the wax set hard and it took a long time to cut through to those trapped below, the air supply had been cut off as the wax filled every opening, entombing the workers.

We did have times without raids and we could see the damage that had been done. Rows of houses had gone. Parts of houses stood without roofs, just the outside walls with maybe a part of a floor with furniture hanging from it, water squirting from the damaged water pipes and gas flames from a gas pipe. Some of the houses just had a chimney breast left with a fireplace still in its place in a wall of four floors, the different wallpaper showing each of the rooms that had been there. Demolition men had to take down the remainder of the remains of the buildings to clear the site. The rubble was stacked higher than a four storey house, just to get it out of the way.

?

A cleared site would have a brick water tank built on it, using the old bricks that had been chipped clean of mortar. The inside of the tank would be tarred over to stop the water getting through. Some of the tanks were fifty feet square by six feet high. We used to put old timbers in to make a raft to play on, it was very dangerous as none of us could swim.

?

The wall of our school playground had a hole made in it for a fire engine to be kept in our school yard, it was a London taxi, one with the canvas passenger hood that could be folded down in the summer. It had a brass bell fitted and an extending ladder on the roof baggage rack, coiled hoses, a stand pipe, and buckets were in the open space beside the driver. The large bumpers, the mudguards and running boards had been painted white, with a big A.F.S. on the doors. Behind it was pulled a two wheel water pump with thick suction hoses strapped to the top.

2

?

One day the air raid siren sounded. I ran down the garden to light the lamp in the Andersen shelter and returned to the house to carry one of the baby twins to the shelter, my mother bringing the other with her, With planes overhead, Mum said to get under the table as there was no time to get down the garden to the shelter. The table was very large for the ten of us that sat round it for our meals. We could hear the bombs falling, then a tremendous explosion. Everything seemed to go orange , then black, then silent, We couldn't breathe. Black soot and plaster from the ceiling choked us. We tried to get out from under the table. The complete window frame, dresser, and the cast iron kitchen range was keeping us in. We worked our way out from under the table. A hole was where the window had been, glass was sticking in the facing wall, all the crockery was smashed when the dresser fell, the kitchen range was on its front with bricks in its place in the hearth. We were black with dust and soot.

?

I looked down the garden through the opening, The shelter where we would have been, was now covered with clay three times as high. The two large conker trees were leafless, there was now a space beyond the shelter, where there had been six houses, now smoked a gaping crater.

?

My school friend Norman Luff who lived in Landcroft Road was badly injured, he was put on a stretcher , and carried out through the alleyway between our house and next door, to Lordship Lane the main road that was clear of debris. He was carried to a vehicle that had been a dust cart. It was a three wheeled Scammel unit that pulled a trailer van, where normally dust men walked into the back to empty dust bins, the vehicle was very low on the ground, and ideal for stretcher cases, it had been converted for ambulance work.

?

My Dad working at Peak Freon's, was told by a driver who had been delivering to shops, that he had passed our home and that the house had been bombed and a boy was being taken out by stretcher into an ambulance. Dad left work to see what had happened. In the war all men had to stay at work for the whole day as they were classed as directed labour, He had to get out of the factory gates. The gate keeper said he should not leave without a pass, but the van driver told him about the bombing and he let Dad go. When Dad got home he was relieved to find out it was not any of us that were injured. My friend who was hurt never came back, nor any of the other people who lost their homes, as there was nothing left. They were homed elsewhere, I don?t remember seeing Norman again.

?

Dad organised us to get bits of wood that had been blasted into our garden to use to board up the windows, we could do nothing about the roof as most of it had gone. The girls and Mum cleared up inside, and threw all the plaster and broken things into a heap in the road, Dad said keep the bricks as we would need them again. We had a jam jar of tea, as all the cups had been broken, it was very hot and we could not hold the jar as it had no handle. The big kettle had been squashed so Dad mended the hole in the tin kettle with two washers and a nut and bolt. The gas was still working and the water was very slow.

?

I was told to light the gas geyser in the bathroom and run five inches of water to have a bath, when I got in the bathroom the geyser was hanging from the wall by just the pipes the flue pipe was in the bath with all the soot and tiles from the wall. I told Dad, he said we would have to go back to the days when we used the old galvanised tin bath, its in the shed. I went into the garden to get it, but ran back to tell Dad that the shed had gone and so had everything in it.

?

Mum was filling the copper with cold water, then she lit the wood under it to heat the water to wash all our dirty clothes. She gave a block of Sunlight soap to my sister to cut into strips to be put in with the washing, then kept pounding it with a wooden stick.

?

It was getting dark, all the electric bulbs had been broken, it was pitch black inside as the windows were now boarded up. Dad said get the lamp from the air raid shelter . I once again ran into the garden, but it was impossible to get through all the clay that covered the entrance. Dad made a lamp out of a screw top can. He made a hole in the lid, cut a piece of cloth, threaded it through the hole to hang into the Paraffin inside, adjusted it and lit it. The lamp worked but it was very smoky and soon used up the paraffin.

?

We all got ready to sleep in the front parlour, five of children could sleep under the grand piano, but it had two rods with pedals hanging down that got in our way, we would have to sleep there as there was no chance of us using the shelter that night.

?

Arthur our cat came home, I called him my cat as liked to sleep on my bed, we had forgotten all about him, he was very frightened. He had some of the babies Cow and Gate powdered milk, mixed up for him in a tin lid.

?

Dad had to go to the Wardens Post for night duty, he said ?Stay in this room and I shall know where you all are?. He went off to the Wardens Post shelter in the library just a block up the road from our house. We decided to go to bed as we could not see to do anything as the lamp had gone out, We just talked about what we might be able to do to make things better in the house, so we could repair things for the time being , mum said the house would not be repaired properly as there was no men to do it, or materials to use, we would do as best we could, Dad would sort it out, don?t worry, we must be grateful that we did not get hurt like the people who had lived in the houses at the back of us.

?

The raid came again that night, louder than ever, as the noise was more loud due to there being no windows or roof to deaden the noise. Every explosion brought down more plaster from the ceiling, onto the piano marking the polished surface, that had been so bright, (we had not been allowed to touch it in case we left finger marks) that is if we had got into the parlour in the first place!

?

The raid passed, it became quieter, we lay there in the darkness, relieved that, the planes had gone, bells still rang as fire engines and ambulances raced past in the road outside, the darkness, and tiredness now made us, one by one fall asleep.

Arthur was tucked in with me, purring gently now pleased to be back home, I fell asleep too!

[Loz]

Shorty - an awesome and engrossing piece of writing. Many thanks for that. Fascinating stuff.

[bmrmn]

Wow - what terrible memories and how vivid they have remained - and they are fascinating for our generation who weren't alive in the war. My son is in year 3 at school and their topic this term is World War 2. I don't suppose you'd be interested in talking to him, or coming in to the school, to talk about your experiences would you??

[SilverSurfer65]

Hi computedshorty,

Thank you so much for sharing your memories, and I do enjoy reading everything you write on here.

One thing puzzles me though - why did you all not get evacuated?

I went away aged 10 months to Rawtenstall in Lancashire, with my Mother and her elderly parents, after my Father went off to War. My Grandfather died there in 1943, and we came back to London, but were then sent away to Audenshaw in Manchester.

I don't know how long we were in Manchester, but we did come back before the end of the War, as a bomb dropped a few streets away from where we were living, and a lump of shrapnel fell on the roof and windowsill of our house.

My husband was also evacuated, and he was one of 6 children at the time. He was first sent to Surrey with his older brother, came back to London after a few months, but then went to Wales on his own in 1944, aged 8, and he had a terrible life there with the people who took him in. His parents stayed in London and there were 2 more children born, although the last one was born in Blackpool in 1944, so his Mother must have been evacuated there.

I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but have you ever thought about publishing your memories?

Thanks again.

Gina

[computedshorty]

Hi Silver.

Just a memory.

A Generation.

My family had began in 1920, my father having been a Prisoner of War 1914 ?1918 for four years, then back home met my mother aged just twenty, they married the next six years my two brothers and two sisters were born, after another five years I arrived.

In those days there was no Hot water or Central heating, no Radio no T.V. no Telephone, no washing machine.

Large kettles were constantly being put on the Range to boil, to wash the Nappies and bedding, the only soap was a block of Carbolic cut into pieces and added to the boiling water, pounded with a stick to move it about soda crystals were added to the nappies no disposable ones then.

I can remember that mum now looking very tired out had gone to the Hospital she had realised might be pregnant, again after seven years, my sisters were waiting for her to get home at the side door to hear the news.

Mum came in sat on the stairs and cried, ? What?s the matter mum? said Edith our oldest sister, when mum recovered she said.

? you will be getting two new babies to play with!?

So mum got bigger and bigger, then there they were, put into a wooden cot, one at one end and the other at the other end, one dressed in pink and one in blue.

Dad said that as mum was going to find it hard to look after them and do all the house work and meals and shopping, I should help her as much as I could, there was now ten in the family, aunt Alice was very old and could not help, my sisters and brothers had to go to work as they were now over fourteen.

In the coming years I learnt to turn the wheel on the Mangle to squeeze the water from the Blankets and sheets, the help hang them on the line all down the garden, mum liked cooking and I was allowed to help make pastry and cut out my little Ginger bread men and watch them get brown in the oven.

We always had a cooked meal about six o?clock, so we peeled the potatoes cut the greens or sprouts carrots and the big piece of meat all covered in gravy served to the table with all ten of us sitting around the very big table, dad sat at the head and we all at the side and end.

No one started until we were all seated, when dad picked up his knife and fork we all ate every thing.

The rule was nobody left the table until the last had finished, we had to take our own plates out to scullery to be washed.

I learnt to iron with a solid iron placed on the hob on the range to get hot, had to remember to wipe the bottom with a damp cloth or you put all black marks on your ironing, learnt how to fold a shirt so it looked as if it had just come out of a packet new.

I was shown how to darn, that was done all the time in the war as you could not buy new socks, the wool was from a woollen jumper the had the wool unwound into balls, I learned to knit but did not tell my school pals, I knew that I would never hear the last of it.

I spent a lot of time just looking after the twins while mum got on with things, she never seemed to stop working.

The war started and my sisters and brothers had to go in the Forces, dad was a Fire Warden at the Library, aunt Alice would not come down from the forth floor to the garden Shelter.

After many bombs had dropped so close mum and dad said that they feared for the twins safety, so I had to go with them to look after them, we went to Bird in Bush Road Peckham to be put on an ancient bus to Liverpool Street Railway Station, I had one of those cardboard labels tied to my lapel and the cardboard Gas mask box and my paper parcel with a change of clothes ( they were my only ones ) the steam train got under way but we stopped suddenly we learned after that the rear coaches had got bombed and uncoupled.

We were met at Lowestoft Station and a coach took us to Blunderston Village, where we were stood in line and chosen to go to stay with families, all the kids were taken away with just myself and the twins left, I was determined that we were not going to be parted, but a young woman took the twins away, every body had gone I was left with just the WVS lady, she took me home to her farm a few miles away called Corton.

I kept asking where was my brother and sister, she said don't worry they will be alright but I said I had promised mum to look after them,

Their son was my age so we got on, I enjoyed the farm and helped haymaking.

I was forbidden to go to see my brother and sister, but I went I found them sitting on the brick top of the well in the garden every one had a well to get their water so it was not covered.

I wrote home saying that they were O.K, but unintentionally mentioned that they were sitting on an open well top.

Shortly after Mum came and took us back home she said the kids might get killed at home as well as the danger here.

So that was my six week Evacuation.

Back home happy to be among the bombs again.

Thinking back now it is hard to know that all the family have all died, except my young twin sister.

[ondined]

I've really enjoyed reading this computedshortly. Your last line in your last post is so poignant. The memories, as another poster pointed out, are clearly so vivid still. My grandmother had 7 children during WW2, my mum was the youngest and none of them were evacuated which I always thought was strange when I was young as we learnt at school that this was just "what happened" to children in London, but she couldn't bear the family to be separated, and similar to your mum decided that they were safest with her.