Who to vote for?

[pk]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Sounds simple Alan. However we?ve seen the

> difficulties in disentangling ourselves from 40

> years of EU membership. How much more difficult to

> unravel 400 years of Union?

>

> What belongs to the Crown? Defence and coastal

> waters? An economic border between England and

> Scotland if we?re not in the EU? Tariffs for

> cross-border trade?

>

> I don?t think this has been thought through

I agree the leavers didn?t think this thru, the end of the Union is a very likely consequence of Brexit

And that?ll create another hell of a mess

[keano77]

Possibly pk but don?t forget the krankies brought their independence referendum two years before the Brexit ref, not as a result of it

[diable rouge]

...and they were asked to vote no to independence in order to stay in the EU

[pk]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Possibly pk but don?t forget the krankies brought

> their independence referendum two years before the

> Brexit ref, not as a result of it

And before Brexit they voted to stay in the Union

Post Brexit probably not

[Spartacus]

The issue I see with Nicole is not them voting for independence, personally I don't give a Jot if they do, it's the other things she will demand as part of a coalition including giving up our nuclear defense.

Don't get me wrong I'm all in for global unilateral disarming of nuclear devices but there is no way in hell that I can support just the UK giving them up as that would leave us defenseless to other countries that do have them. (The old mutually assured destruction syndrome)

That and other things is why I think a coalition with the SNP is a dangerous option for the country , not the threat of indyref

[pk]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> The issue I see with Nicole is not them voting for

> independence, personally I don't give a Jot if

> they do

you're not a fan of this United Kingdom?

and you think breaking up will be easy?

[diable rouge]

Sturgeon is savvy enough to know that getting rid of Trident wouldn't pass a vote through parliament due to Labour rebels and Lib Dems etc. A different matter if they win independence though...

[Asset]

But Trident creates a lot of jobs in Scotland and I'm not sure how they would replace them so don't think it's really a viable option for her to remove.

I grew up in Scotland and a lot of my friends and family are still there, most of them are Yes voters but I don't understand how they can reconcile voting to leave the UK yet also want to stay in the EU. As far as I see it, all the arguments for staying in the EU can be extrapolated to staying in the UK and most of the Yes voters are voting with their hearts instead of their heads.

[Seabag]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> Someone sent me a message stating

> "A vote for Labour is a vote for a coalition with

> the SNP and Nicola being the puppet Mistress"

>

> That would worry me more than anyone else being in

> power as her demands would destroy this country

Really, honestly, ?somebody? sent you that message?

It?s your way of saying ?I don?t like that Sturgeon woman? , just be honest.

Puppet mistress? Who the f uses phrases like that these days?

[fishbiscuits]

I think I prefer Sturgeon to Corbyn, by quite some margin.

At the time of the first Scottish referendum, I really wanted Scotland to stay. But now... if I was Scottish I'd almost certainly want out of this shit show.

[diable rouge]

I felt the same, never considered myself much of a unionist, but I did think we were 'better together'. Friends I have in Scotland, including English settled there, all now think the same.

I suspect the Tories aren't that bothered, we've seen how they were prepared to throw NI and their DUP friends under the Brexit bus, and it won't have gone unnoticed to Tory strategists that without the Scottish vote how difficult it will be in the future to ever kick the Tories out of power...

[Seabag]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> I think I prefer Sturgeon to Corbyn, by quite some

> margin.

>

> At the time of the first Scottish referendum, I

> really wanted Scotland to stay. But now... if I

> was Scottish I'd almost certainly want out of this

> shit show.

I?m apt to agree, they?re by no way perfect. But anything that takes Johnson out and gives the country a chance to relook at the whole situation is best if the two evils.

I?m resigned to the next ten years being a struggle, but not ten years more of Tory organised chaos, to then be told by the very party that created the chaos that they?re the ones to sort it out.

I?m also pro the union, as we are stronger together. But if I was Scotland, I?d be looking the idea of choice straight on and in the eye.

The knock on of Brexit are far reaching, and the dumbed down message of ?get Brexit done? is another deception. It?s not going to be ?done? by any measure in the near future. It?s much like putting the parents in a care home. They might be out of sight, but they?re there ?dying slowly? until dead for an expensive and long time yet.

[Alan Medic]

Seabag Wrote:

>

> The knock on of Brexit are far reaching, and the

> dumbed down message of ?get Brexit done? is

> another deception. It?s not going to be ?done? by

> any measure in the near future. It?s much like

> putting the parents in a care home. They might be

> out of sight, but they?re there ?dying slowly?

> until dead for an expensive and long time yet.

Like the analogy Seabag.

[Alan Medic]

On the subject of the thread, given my concerns of Labour's stance on Brexit, I wrote to our MP asking her what would she do in my position. I received an excellent response which included links to everything she voted on.

My concern with Labour's current stance of 'putting it to the people', is that they could decide that a supermajority is required in a 2nd referendum for us to remain in the EU. That's why a hung parliament is the best option for me given the SNP and the Lib Dems won't buy into that I'm sure.

[diable rouge]

We have a Prime Minister who won't tell the public how many children he's fathered, yet has castigated single mothers. Marina Hyde's latest column pulls no punches...

Boris Johnson?s big contribution to reducing plastic consumption is not wearing condoms. Or as Gavin Williamson put it this morning: ?Boris Johnson has done more for the environment than any other politician.? Quite. We don?t need a joined-up strategy to prevent climate catastrophe with the largest and most successful trading bloc the world has ever seen, because Johnson?s going to spaff our way to the higher ground, while we serve as galley slaves on his privatised sex ark.

Maybe I?m being a shade unfair. So let me say that this election marks a change of behaviour for the prime minister, who has finally started withdrawing. Unfortunately, he?s pulling out of climate debates and BBC interviews, as opposed to single mothers. Still, baby steps. And he?s certainly missed a few of those.

[Sue]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> We have a Prime Minister who won't tell the public

> how many children he's fathered, yet has

> castigated single mothers. Marina Hyde's latest

> column pulls no punches...

>

> Boris Johnson?s big contribution to reducing

> plastic consumption is not wearing condoms. Or as

> Gavin Williamson put it this morning: ?Boris

> Johnson has done more for the environment than any

> other politician.? Quite. We don?t need a

> joined-up strategy to prevent climate catastrophe

> with the largest and most successful trading bloc

> the world has ever seen, because Johnson?s going

> to spaff our way to the higher ground, while we

> serve as galley slaves on his privatised sex ark.

>

> Maybe I?m being a shade unfair. So let me say that

> this election marks a change of behaviour for the

> prime minister, who has finally started

> withdrawing. Unfortunately, he?s pulling out of

> climate debates and BBC interviews, as opposed to

> single mothers. Still, baby steps. And he?s

> certainly missed a few of those.

Marina Hyde is brilliant.

The rest of the article carried on in the same vein :)

[malumbu]

I've tried not to watch too much TV debate, or jump on the knocking BoJo bandwagon in terms of his behaviours.

But Andrew Marr today was a bit of a shocker. No attempt to answer the question, it was like they were having parallel conversations. Maybe it is like a silent disco with two people dancing to separate tunes.

The lack of substance was frightening, just repeating that everything was Labour's fault, JC is a terrorist sympathiser and 120 days as PM holding no responsibility for the 10 years before. Ckakrabarty on the other hand, whether genuine or not, refused to politicise Friday's events. I'd refused to join in the common view that BoJo comes across as smirking but a smile was coming to his lips as if it was all a game.

Dare I say that JC for all his faults (poor leadership, general incompetence) does have much greater gravitas

CAn someone produce a video based on the Monty Python argument sketch - Cleese/BoJo Palin/Marr

 

[Jules-and-Boo]

too funny.

[Bob Buzzard]

I?ve got a postal ballot and it?s Lib Dem for me!

[malumbu]

I've suggested to the BBC remaking the Monty Python argument sketch; you can't e-mail the show directly and apparently there have been complaints of bias due to BJ ducking the issue. Well he did. That's not bias, that's fair journalism.

I've noted too misteaks in my earlier post so it's off to Rees-Mogg's plaice for some correcktion.

[JohnL]

The secret barrister account on twitter created a long detailed explanation of IPP sentences and what happened in 2012/2013 and why sentences were changed.

It seems someone in Boris's team nicked it and sent it out under his name. I like the comment "This is weapons grade sh**housery."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-accused-weapons-grade-21001907

[DNellie]

Suggesting that People HAVE to vote is like saying that if a vegetarian is in a pub and wants to eat

they must choose a Meat option if there is No veggie option.

[diable rouge]

The problem with analogies is that they are rarely relevant to the situation in question. How is going to a pub for a meal anything like voting to see who governs us for the next five years? However, if the vegetarian had to stay in the pub for 5 years, I'm guessing it wouldn't be long before they started drooling over the bacon sarnies...

[JohnL]

DNellie Wrote:

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> Suggesting that People HAVE to vote is like saying

> that if a vegetarian is in a pub and wants to eat

> they must choose a Meat option if there is No

> veggie option.

I was going through my old papers and shredding last week and found a demand that I register to vote with Bromley council (back when I lived there) with the threat of a 1000 fine and a note I was on the list to be prosecuted.

Wasn't compulsory to vote but they really wanted my registration.

[fishbiscuits]

Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub members up and down the country, desperately trying to convince themselves and others that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly delusional!!