LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[heartblock]

Busy is different from peak, but one does love a pedant, where do you live Northern? What road?

Looks like the poster-boy for LTNs for Rachel, Anna and Peter is not seeing an improvement in respiratory illness .....in fact one of the worst fir adults in London. Still....when that traffic evaporates all will be well.

https://walthamforestecho.co.uk/ae-visits-more-likely-for-waltham-forest-asthmatics/

[heartblock]

Yep Chris..exactly.

I do wonder how Northern can defend a 25-36% increase in traffic on ED Grove after the LTNs went in.....

Of course NOx levels have not been released by Southwark, but the monitoring that residents paid for showed toxic and illegal levels on our road.

[dulwichfolk]

In a pandemic accidents go down! Also internet usage went up maybe that is due to the LTN?

[heartblock]

The thing is Dulwichfolk, when the residents of ED Grove say our residential road is busier..we are told it?s because of the ?accident? the ?gas main? the ?water main? the ?herd of wilder-beast? or our vivid imagination.

When accidents are reduced or more people choose to walk rather than take a packed bus and traffic is down ...this is due to the magic fairy dust of LTNs spreading love and joy throughout the universe.....and not because those that need to travel are all avoiding Covid 19 on the bus/tube/train and the rest aren?t travelling as working from home.

[Earl Aelfheah]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > One of the early pre-pandemic suggestions from

> a

> > cycling lobby rep was that unless you worked

> > locally/ could cycle, walk or use PT to get to

> > work, you should really consider moving out of

> the

> > area!

>

> Cool story

Just not sure what your point is. Apparently someone said something stupid a long time ago. They support LTNs. So?? Are you inviting us to make a general attribution error?

[first mate]

We can certainly agree it was a less than helpful comment. I don't know if the individual supports LTNs, I'd imagine they do. The comment was pre-pandemic but not so long ago. If memory serves, it was made by a Southwark cycling rep around the time of the last CPZ consultation. Can't know for sure of course, but given their role I did wonder if it reflected a wider view within SC.

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > first mate Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > One of the early pre-pandemic suggestions

> from

> > a

> > > cycling lobby rep was that unless you worked

> > > locally/ could cycle, walk or use PT to get

> to

> > > work, you should really consider moving out

> of

> > the

> > > area!

> >

> > Cool story

>

> Just not sure what your point is. Apparently

> someone said something stupid a long time ago.

> They support LTNs. So?? Are you inviting us to

> make a general attribution error?

[Spartacus]

Sorry couldn't resist as this thread has been going on and on for so long.

[first mate]

In fairness, I think a number of us are guilty as charged 😀

[Spartacus]

first mate Wrote:

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> In fairness, I think a number of us are guilty as

> charged 😀

Oh we all are, but there is only so much room on the Ft. bit and it would have been a rock opera if I named everyone 😱

[heartblock]

Vinyl........nice touch.

[malumbu]

[exdulwicher]

Oh we all are, but there is only so much room on the Ft. bit and it would have been a rock opera if I named everyone 😱

Pop a bid in to Southwark Council for some funding to create said rock opera and perform it in Dulwich Square.

;-)

[Spartacus]

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh we all are, but there is only so much room on

> the Ft. bit and it would have been a rock opera if

> I named everyone 😱

>

> Pop a bid in to Southwark Council for some funding

> to create said rock opera and perform it in

> Dulwich Square.

> ;-)

Brilliant plan

First song is called

"Mama weer all crazy now"

The finale has to be the pushbike song with all the council officers getting on their bikes and leaving

[Rockets]

Chris_1 Wrote:

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> There was a comment earlier about traffic count on

> Croxted Road - and how confusingly it looks down.

> We looked at TfL SCOOT data just for the direction

> that?s actually impacted by the LTN - eg heading

> north towards HH, and at the timings that roughly

> coincide with timed closures (data 7-10am) vs

> timed closures 8-10am.

>

> Traffic is up over that period - I don?t have the

> stats in front of me but something like 3-5% in

> each of Feb/May and up north of 10% in April.

>

> Obviously fair pushback would be that I?m cherry

> picking the worst of it to look at - my comment

> would be that this is the problem time so it makes

> most sense to look at that.

>

> I think the data presented in the council report

> was all day and both directions - the road is

> pretty quiet outside of peak times (outside of

> timed closures times too), and there?s no impact

> southbound from the LTN. Suspicion is that south

> is down a LOT, north is

> Flat-to-up depending on whether you look at peak

> or all day.

>

> Congestion is way up, can see that thru the same

> scoot data set.

>

> Would have been helpful if the council had broken

> out the data in a few different ways, I try hard

> not to be a pessimist but it does appear like at

> least for our street a fair picture has not quite

> been painted.

I think the council is trying to share as little data as possible because they know that once we get more granularity their "it's working" narrative falls apart pretty quickly. It will be interesting to see if they ever share any of the data they have been gathering on roads east of Lordship Lane like Underhill Road - the interesting thing is the monitoring strips were in on Underhill in April yet no data was shared. I had always feared they were trying to keep the review area to west of Lordship Lane because they knew a lot of traffic was heading east of Lordship Lane to navigate around the congestion around the Grove Tavern junction.

They were challenged on this numerous times and people were told that the areas east would be included in the review but this seems to have gone no further than sending the plain envelopes containing the info on the review to some households.

They have to, and should be compelled to, include those streets in the data analysis.

[heartblock]

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, but in a few years time get a cushty job 70k plus with LandLease......

[Rockets]

Or "only speak evil" if you are hiding behind anonymous twitter accounts (a la Councillor Leo Pollack!)

https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/council-housing-boss-resigns-after-running-anonymous-twitter-account-that-harangued-residents/

It seems that politicians are all the same - scream out against sleaze yet happy to indulge in some when it suits their own agenda.

I wonder if Cllr Pollack got the ?5,000 pay-off from the council that Cllr Williams promised him - that council meeting with the Lib Dem councillors tearing the councillors to shreds over that was something really quite fascinating to watch and exactly why this council desperately needs some opposition to hold them to account.

[Abe_froeman]

Yes that was so disappointing because Kieron Williams came in promising a new approach and a change from the past and yet it seems he has delivered nothing at all in that regard

[Rockets]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> All the research on LTNs suggest they lead to

> fewer cars, increases in active travel and

> reduction in road injuries. It?s crazy how it is

> all biased. The lack of any counter evidence is

> startling. It just shows how far the conspiracy

> goes.

>

> Surely there must be at least one brave academic

> who isn?t willing to falsify research or

> manipulate data to hide the truth... Which is

> *checks notes* that encouraging cars onto more

> roads reduces car use and encourages active

> travel.

But Rahx3 did you notice that there has been no reduction in cycle injuries within the LTNs in Allred?s report - I am (not) surprised that Peter Walker failed to pick up on that? There is something weird in the data as you would expect that with a reduction in vehicles within the LTNs that would lead to a reduction in cycle injuries within them too(as it has with all other injuries) - unless, of course, vehicles aren?t causing the injuries.

[Abe_froeman]

There's no way that those injuries aren't still all caused by the 2 tonne metal box chelsea tractors parked up on the kerbside everywhere.

[malumbu]

Rocks, we were having a bit of fun until you got all serious again....

[alice]

It?s a serious thread. Find fun elsewhere.

[heartblock]

It is very serious for residents on Croxted, ED Grove, Grove Vale and LL worried about the health of children and vulnerable adults, I?m very aware about the terrible and dangerous conditions of my road. Humour is a way of releasing stress, but the serious nature of harm caused by Southwark?s continued dubious and questionable planning that impacts the poorest in the Borough remains a present threat.

The LTN debacle is the latest in a very, very, very long list of Southwark?s dictatorship. Building on green spaces on estates might be it?s next shameful act.

[Spartacus]

alice Wrote:

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> It?s a serious thread. Find fun elsewhere.

You're right Alice, but for the record a little light relief can often break the tension caused when two sides are at loggerheads and there's no apparent way of meeting in the middle.

But I'll be the first to say "sorry mom"

[heartblock]

I liked the break and humour, so no issue about that from me Spartacus, but I don?t like being told by others (not you), to not be serious about this matter by people who are not experiencing a 25-36% rise in traffic and pollution just metres from where they live as I do....as a direct result of LTNs. But yes...we are all now broken records.

I hope Southwark are pleased when they cast their eye over the mess they have created.

[DuncanW]

Heartblock,

I don't think the residents of Croxted, EDG and LL represent the 'poorest in the borough' - I'm sure there's a mix of demographics on all those roads but that seems pretty wide of the mark.

It's also worth noting that most of the high density social housing in Southwark, where there would be lower levels of affluence are already in LTNs. Keeping it local, the Lordship Lane, Dog Kennel Hill and Dawsons Heights estates are all closed off to through traffic - and this is also generally true of the larger estates in the north of the borough.

And in what way is LB Southwark a dictatorship? Labour hold over three quarters of the seats in Southwark because people vote for them. There are elections next year - if they are unpopular, they will get voted out.