LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[heartblock]

It appears that TFL is another body unable to consult or do any EqIA, much like Southwark.

Guide dogs are trained to understand zebra crossings and these patchwork patterns are dangerous and confusing for them. Yes they look pretty and I personally like them, but it isn't about likes or dislikes - it's about safety.

[legalalien]

Good lord.

Some people have added the junction to google maps as a tourist attraction.

On the funny side,

The google map picture is of a road junction, and it doesn?t look very touristy.

See pic attached.

[Rockets]

It will be interesting to see how TFL and Sadiq react to the criticism of the colourful crossing initiative.

Whilst I love a splash of colour it has clearly been done with inadequate thought, assessment or proper engagement.

https://www.transportforall.org.uk/campaign/colourful-crossings/

[Rockets]

Did get a visit from Cllrs Leeming or Newens yesterday? It appears they were knocking on doors - we had a leaflet put through the door saying they had called. Unfortunately we were out as I would love to have been able to discuss the LTN review "process" with them to get their thoughts.

[heartblock]

I fear the less affluent end of ED Grove has been abandoned by our Councillors in the main. James is the only one I have ever seen outside of the election period, otherwise I get 'knocked-up' just before an election or see them in the press at any opening or photo-op. Considering the tragic accident and the following grief and shock felt by many on ED Grove in the Summer, one did hope that one of the Councillors would have visited the area.

I imagine the plethora of Stop Road Closure Signs outside of the flats and apartments - in the middle of ED Grove where they suffer the weekday and Saturday traffic standstill, may have put them off from visiting to check up on us all.

[malumbu]

Looking at a few recent posts it could appear that some of you are trawling Twitter and the net looking for any negative stories about Southwark, TfL, cyclists or those supporting LTNs. A shame.

Separately having been on some rare road trips in the capital recently congestion appears as bad as it was when I first moved to London yonks ago. I expect much of this is due to making the congestion charge 24/7 throwing cross London traffic East and West, and (as I rarely drive in the working day) many of the bus lanes have also become 24/7. Even more likely to use public transport in future.

[legalalien]

Appearances can be deceiving.

[heartblock]

Yes - posting aggressively on Twitter to tell a school teacher and mother to move house if she lives on Croxted Road because LTN supporters want her to 'give us all a rest', just because she is scared for her childs lungs and is concerned about the traffic on her road post LTNs, is unpleasant, but let's get back to the points.

The Consultation showed a negative response to LTNs and the EqIA showed that the elderly and BAME residents were the least likely to support and felt they had been negatively effected.

No raw pollution data was made available.

Traffic rose on EDG and Croxted.

Buses were slower on EDG and Croxted.

Winter pre Covid was compared to Summer in lockdown to compare cycling and traffic.

So - why are LTNs remaining?

[andrewc]

Where can I find details about the winter pre covid baseline figures used?

[heartblock]

Pre was collected in Nov 2018 and Sept 2019 when there were no travel restrictions - the post data was collected in March 2021 - only essential travel , April 2021 restrictions and June 2021 ...Summer

Collection data ATCs - published by Dulwich Council

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s101513/Appendix%20C%204%20-%20Dulwich%20Streetspace%20data%20collection%20timings.pdf

[heartblock]

Croxted Jan 2017....pre-LTN

I mean ...really, are you really going to defend this data...

[andrewc]

I think the data speaks for itself.

[heartblock]

No data doesn't 'speak' - data is presented and an intelligent person will then decide if it is valid based on validity of methodology and analysis.

[andrewc]

How many data points from the baseline should we treat as valid? And on what grounds?

[heartblock]

How many data points do you think are valid? And on what grounds Andrew? You seem to be the one quoting the massive changes.

[andrewc]

I notice that there are a variety of base line dates used for comparison, one in January, one in February and all the rest in the months April to October. I have no way of knowing how to invalidate which baseline data and on what grounds.

I would prefer that someone skilled in data and statistics could advise on the available data and while showing their method and reason make a judgement which I can assess for myself.

[johnhinton]

You said the data speaks for itself, Andrewc, and now you want a statistician to explain the data to you. Perhaps you meant the data speaks to itself, and now you need interpretation from a source other than the council - that's a kind of progress.

[slarti b2]

andrewc Wrote:

I would prefer that someone skilled in data and statistics could advise on the available data and while showing their method and reason make a judgement which I can assess for myself.

Andrew, I explained to you why some of the Soutwark figures for cycling increases you quoted are a)misleading\fraudulent (Calton Avenue)and b)Almost certainly wrong (Dulwich Village)

Did you understand the reasons and, if so, do you accept that the Southwark report is biased and cannot be relied upon?

[ab29]

Slarti B2 is a statistician. Andrew C - what do you say?

[peckhamside]

LTNs are remaining because traffic air pollution is harming our lungs, air pollution is contributing to global warming which is destroying our way of life, road accidents are harming cyclists and pedestrians, embedded carbon cost of cars contributes to gobal warming, people not getting enough exercise is leading to poor health outcomes, noise pollution is damaging wildlife, how many reasons do you need!!

As for the elderly and BAME groups being most against, in the case of elderly I think they have been brainwashed by anti LTN propaganda, it is weight of traffic that is main cause of congestion- not LTNs. BAME, be interesting to know why- maybe they do not feel as safe on the streets/public transport?

Bring in road pricing ASAP (weighted by locality and time of day etc. ) which is the only thing which will sort this out!!

[slarti b2]

@Peckhamside

The poorly thought through Dulwich LTN's are diverting and traffic onto the boundary roads, increasing and concentrating pollution, not reducing it.

[slarti b2]

ab29 Wrote:

Slarti B2 is a statistician. Andrew C

Actually I am a mathematician not a statistician but I do a lot of work with data and am very used to looking at numbers and comparing changes on a "like for like" basis.

But to be frank, you don't have to be a numerical expert to understand that any claims of a big increase in cycling based on comparing cycle volumes from a warm, light week in June against a cold, dark, possibly wet week in December, are completely invalid.

[heartblock]

Exactly....I think living in a gated road may diminish one?s common sense? Maybe?

[heartblock]

And also using percentages rather than actual numbers. A rise of one cyclist in Nov 2018 to 2 in June 2021 would be a 200% rise for example.

I?m surprised the rises in June Summer 21 compared to winter baselines in 2017,18 and 19 were not higher in fact, I would expect far more cycling across the whole country.

[ab29]

I live on Lordship Lane and after the road closures went in I have been experiencing a major increase in traffic, air and noise pollution.

Do you think it is ok that I should be choking on the dirt coming from your road?

If so, why?

peckhamside Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LTNs are remaining because traffic air pollution

> is harming our lungs, air pollution is

> contributing to global warming which is destroying

> our way of life, road accidents are harming

> cyclists and pedestrians, embedded carbon cost of

> cars contributes to gobal warming, people not

> getting enough exercise is leading to poor health

> outcomes, noise pollution is damaging wildlife,

> how many reasons do you need!!

> As for the elderly and BAME groups being most

> against, in the case of elderly I think they have

> been brainwashed by anti LTN propaganda, it is

> weight of traffic that is main cause of

> congestion- not LTNs. BAME, be interesting to

> know why- maybe they do not feel as safe on the

> streets/public transport?

> Bring in road pricing ASAP (weighted by locality

> and time of day etc. ) which is the only thing

> which will sort this out!!