LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Bicknell]

not sure i agree @dulvilleres

best adjustment is getting rid of all-day-all-night closure at DV junction because it displaces traffic 24-7 onto other roads. and carers, doctors, etc cant get through. school-time timed restrictions and exemptions better. and (imho)separate cycle lane on calton

by all means change relationship with car. but put altneratives in first especially across DV. did you see tfl cutting frequency of number 40? going backwards not forwards.

need to think of everyone - children on EDG and croxted walking to school, older people, people wiht mobility problems, carers, nurses, etc

otherwise creating inequality

[Hitmyhat]

The Blue Badge exemptions are only available to Southwark residents so any Blue Badge holder living in Lambeth, for example on Rosendale Road or the Lambeth side of Croxted Road cannot get an exemption! The same applies to Blue Badge holders from anywhere other than Lambeth who need to visit someone within the LTN. Just because a Blue Badge holder doesn?t live in Southwark doesn?t mean their disability magically disappears when they enter Southwark. And what about all those with considerable mobility problems who don?t quite qualify for Blue Badges? The criteria for Blue Badges are very strict and people can have severe mobility problems but not be able to get a Blue Badge.

[heartblock]

It's not really about clean air, or school children or people with reduced mobility is it?

It's about wealthy people wanting quiet roads and piling traffic onto other roads despite those roads having schools, higher footfall and higher residency.

It is a Labour Council causing health inequality and some very wealthy car owning residents wanting to keep LTNs for completely selfish reasons - why else would one of the most voracious supporters have 3 cars at the Dulwich residence and one more car at the weekend residence - yet throw out accusations about how horrid and selfish those people living in flats on ED Grove, who depend on the 37 bus are.

It's a very bad joke!

[alice]

Agree. It is the location of the Dulwich LTNs that is problematic not the principles behind that.

Ps saw something on Twitter about a Dulwich councillor putting forward an amendment about Calton closures at a meeting last night does anyone know anymore?

[heartblock]

I believe a lot of multiple car owning, 3 million pound house owning, second home owning, kids at private school, wealthy residents, possibly with a lovely wood-burner or two... voted it down to protect the planet from climate change...As I say a very bad joke.

[alice]

Radio4 today those earning ?100K+ produce 9X CO2

[DulwichCentral]

heartblock Wrote:

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> I believe a lot of multiple car owning, 3 million

> pound house owning, second home owning, kids at

> private school, wealthy residents, possibly with a

> lovely wood-burner or two... voted it down to

> protect the planet from climate change...As I say

> a very bad joke.

That reminds me of the Pepsi advert :)

(incidentally I realise someone will accuse me of a bad joke but am finding the over-exaggerated characterisation of pro ltn people a bit comical)

[goldilocks]

I don't think it 'comes with the salary' Alice. Also imagine the curve is quite steep above that and that there will be regional variations. But you can see how in non covid times. people in that bracket are more likely to take multiple holidays abroad, run more than one car etc. However, its not a given and in London its naturally skewed anyway.

alice Wrote:

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> Radio4 today those earning ?100K+ produce 9X CO2

[heartblock]

It was a characterisation of Village Ward, but it did have a certain rhythm to it, so I?ll take that as a compliment:)

[alice]

But the point is rah3: LTNs do not ?discourage car use?. Just because you can?t see them out of your window.

[first mate]

Hear, hear. Lot's of convenient misconceptions about Blue Badges...it does not in any way represent a ticked box meaning all those with some sort of disability affecting ability to travel are therefore sorted.

Hitmyhat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Blue Badge exemptions are only available to

> Southwark residents so any Blue Badge holder

> living in Lambeth, for example on Rosendale Road

> or the Lambeth side of Croxted Road cannot get an

> exemption! The same applies to Blue Badge holders

> from anywhere other than Lambeth who need to visit

> someone within the LTN. Just because a Blue Badge

> holder doesn?t live in Southwark doesn?t mean

> their disability magically disappears when they

> enter Southwark. And what about all those with

> considerable mobility problems who don?t quite

> qualify for Blue Badges? The criteria for Blue

> Badges are very strict and people can have severe

> mobility problems but not be able to get a Blue

> Badge.

[oimissus]

It is the fact that blue badge holders weren?t considered at all that makes this particular LTN and its implementation absolutely unforgivable. This ?sensible concession? to exempt blue badge holders who live in Southwark is nothing of the kind - it?s the bare minimum any decent human being would have done in the first place. Aa PP says, is of no help to those blue badge holders in Lambeth bordering the LTN.

And these are the actions of a Labour-run council.

[Penguin68]

Let's hope this doesn't lead to other councils discriminating against Southwark blue badge holders.

[Rockets]

And let's not forget the council also repeatedly ignored the requests of the emergency services to remove the permanent closures...that to me is unforgivable and something I would not expect from Labour.

[malumbu]

Hats off Dulville for your articulate post. Why cannot others agree in principle in this even if you disagree with the approach to closing roads. As Greta says there is a lot of blah blah blah from both politicians, but also the masses about climate change. Not suggesting that this thread is full of blah blah blah of course.....

" Ultimately I see the LTN's* as part of a raft of measures that, if as a community we are serious about climate change, are coming down the track to change our relationship with the motorcar. When people drive less, it will follow there will be less traffic on any road. I can imagine for many people growing up in a generation where the private car was a powerful means of freedom and independence, and indeed a symbol of success, learning to adapt to measures that prevent them driving at will is going to be hard. But the world is changing fast."

* insert a less emotive term such as 'local restrictions' - which we have had imposed on us certainly since I have lived in London

(edited for typos)

[ab29]

"if as a community we are serious about climate change, are coming down the track to change our relationship with the motorcar" - and once again, what about people living on the boundary roads which are now taking displaced traffic, which means having more air pollution and more noise on your doorstep?

LTN might have moved the traffic away from your road, but it is affecting other roads very badly. Only because you do not see something anymore, it does not mean it simply stopped existing - you have only pushed the problem away from your home.

You can parade up and down the closed roads all you want, imagining you are saving the world - it has nothing to do with reality.

[sally buying]

Same as Khan using his posh motor and security to take the dog for a walk. Whilst older residents now have to think very carefully about visiting family and if they can afford to pay yet another tax on possibly their only pleasure.

Their world getting smaller.

I know pensioners who!s life has receded because of LTN and ULEZ which effects their health and mental health.

Why does Khan need security to safeguard his ego?

[alice]

Khan has many death threats. Of course, he should have security like any other public figure.

[malumbu]

Some rather closed minds, a shame.

[Spartacus]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Some rather closed minds, a shame.

Some rather closed roads, a shame 😱

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The focus on Khan and criticism of him having police escorts is odd on this thread when a) two MPs were recently murdered by political extremists of different stripes and b) Khan has sod all to do with the Dulwich LTN.

[Rockets]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hats off Dulville for your articulate post. Why

> cannot others agree in principle in this even if

> you disagree with the approach to closing roads.

> As Greta says there is a lot of blah blah blah

> from both politicians, but also the masses about

> climate change. Not suggesting that this thread

> is full of blah blah blah of course.....

>

>

> " Ultimately I see the LTN's* as part of a raft of

> measures that, if as a community we are serious

> about climate change, are coming down the track to

> change our relationship with the motorcar. When

> people drive less, it will follow there will be

> less traffic on any road. I can imagine for many

> people growing up in a generation where the

> private car was a powerful means of freedom and

> independence, and indeed a symbol of success,

> learning to adapt to measures that prevent them

> driving at will is going to be hard. But the world

> is changing fast."

>

> * insert a less emotive term such as 'local

> restrictions' - which we have had imposed on us

> certainly since I have lived in London

>

> (edited for typos)

Blah, blah,blah....I can agree with the objective just not the means to get there....but let's pretend the means get us there whether it does or doesn't...#blahblahblah....

[Spartacus]

Whilst this is about road closures, we do occasionally touch on the ULEZ and I am seeing more traffic on the south circular over the past 2 week's. (My perception)

Is this down to vehicles avoiding coming into the ULEZ (and Dulwich) or is it just an unusual higher volume and perception ?

[ab29]

This is true. South Circular has been double hit - first by LTN and now by ULEZ.

[Bicknell]

more questions than answers...

https://www.onedulwich.uk/news/why-the-data-doesnt-add-up