Fox thread

[Gaynor Hill]

It's illegal to kill Foxes when they have cubs 8 hope these people get what they deserve cruel nasty people

The only reason hunting was on boxing Day was that it was before mating season

The fox project could rescue the baby Foxes otherwise they will not survive 9n there own

[Mark]

I'm not saying it's right to have killed the fox, I'm just asking please look at the facts, especially if you want to prosecute the neighbour

Fox has been killed - fact

A catapult or airgun was heard - speculative

A shot was heard at 1am - speculative (a moderator/suppressor would be used and so you probably wouldn't hear it anyway)

Cause of death - unknown

RSPCA voicemail said it's legal to shoot a fox - fact

"Obvious from the photos that this fox has suffered" - speculative

The fox has cubs - speculative (hopefully false)

That vixens scream at mating time, which is in January - fact (I was wrong to think that that was the sound)

Use of poison - speculative (but very illegal, proof would seal a prosecution)

"Now these people might shoot a cat, where will they stop?" - Speculative, and it's illegal

etc etc

By the way DF - it's cooked chicken bones that are dangerous, they're brittle and sharp when broken.

To me the important thing is that if there are cubs, where are they and can they be cared for so they don't suffer? The Fox Project is the best place to contact.

[first mate]

Other foxes may move into the territory in time, so this could happen again.

I am also concerned about the use of a firearm in an urban area. There is an outside chance this was done by a hired specialist but not clear. Examination of the body might indicate what was used to kill the animal and from that it might be ascertained whether this was done according to guidelines.

The fate of the cubs is a big issue.

[supersammyc]

update: the neighbour admitted to hiring someone in to shoot them ALL, including 4 cubs. Although I think one escaped because I heard it last night. And i think other adult foxes came in to help in.

clearly this 'professional' that was hired is not so, because the vixen escaped and it took 30mins to die. he needs reporting and his licence taken away! not sure how to get the details from the neighbour though.

yes, 101 has been called

[colville09]

Beyond the immediate rescue of any Cubs, it seems to me the important thing is to collect evidence and statements now from witnesses to document what happened. Get them in the form of written, signed and dated materials. Prepare it as a body of evidence to go to court. I am certain you would be able to crowd fund for a private prosecution for the unnecessary suffering. I would contribute, but you have to collect the evidence. I too am really concerned about the use of firearms in an urban area, was this done with police sanction. Establish all the facts on the 'contractor'and the the person who employed them. If they think they had a right to do this let them stand up and be identified. Yes, it will be neighbours cats at risk if they feel they can do this. From what you say they could have put physical barriers in place.

[KidKruger]

I have a friend in East Grinstead had a pro come in overnight to shoot foxes from his upstairs back window, overlooking their massive garden. Killed 5 foxes, all headshots and instant (from 30-50metres), after which he took the dead animals away.

If he'd missed and injured one of the foxes (causing slow/delayed death if it escaped the target zone) I'm not convinced he'd be liable to prosecution. If he would have been liable, I'm not sure he'd have taken the job on - surely it would be too risky a proposition ?

[lindylou]

I find this whole scenario so upsetting and concerning. How can someone possibly think this is an okay thing to do? To shoot foxes in a small London garden? The worst the foxes would do is dig holes. There are many fox deterrents that can be purchased without resorting to shooting them.

[colville09]

I think you have to really have to establish / gather the facts and the laws to make this person responsible for their actions. Is it illegal to shoot foxes when they are nursing Cubs. Is it legal to discharge firearms in an urban area. Did the 'contractor' need to register his intentions with the police. I think you should ask the police if they should be interviewing your neighbour to establish the facts because from what you say, gun shots were heard coming from their property at one in the morning. We don't live in a rural setting with massive gardens where a 'professional' marksman could safely operate.

[MattyBahatty]

Hi Guys and to answer Mark,

I live in this area and was witness to the gunshots, the cubs and the crying fox death.

There is no speculation involved on many of these facts.

He admitted to the killing of the whole family, including 3 cubs we witnessed regularly.

He suggested he used a professional, I have evidence of the vast blood trail and the corpse.

I heard gunshots one night, they stopped when I came out and made noise. I heard a fox clearly in death agony for at least half an hour.

The police say he was within his rights to do this, no evidence is clear he used a professional only that firing came from the area of his garden. We are at a dead end with regards steps. He did attempt to physically intimidate me and Sam and a large argument happened.

[Mark]

Thanks MattyBahatty, at least we know there are no orphaned cubs.

[colville09]

I am so so sorry for this horrible situation, I really feel for you. The Police may say in general terms that he is within in his rights to kill foxes on his property but the bare facts are a) there were gunshots coming from his property and b)he has now threatened you.They should be interviewing him to establish the facts, it might at least make him consider that threatening people is not acceptable and for them to ascertain if he did use a licensed 'contractor'. And provide evidence to them. Easy for me to say and again, so so sad for what you have experienced.

[MattyBahatty]

I am sorry, I should clarify, there is definitely one orphaned cub, it is the smallest of the litter and spent much of last night crying loudly. It may have joined another fox family nearby. It's not clear. It often visits one house for food.

[Administrator]

One post removed for being libellous, others may follow (without warning).

[KidKruger]

What worries me is this catching-on in the area, if this guy can shoot-up foxes in gardens then presumably it applies to any gardens. Legal or no, something doesn't sit right with me about killing an animal (and it's children) just cos it makes noise, messes up your flower bed, or digs a hole under your fence. But maybe I'm just a big old softy.

[MattyBahatty]

None of this is libellous. He did it and he admitted to it.

[MattyBahatty]

And he left a fox baby orphaned in great distress, which I understand is illegal.

[Penguin68]

One post removed for being libellous, others may follow (without warning)

Publishing a libel is something that must be proved in court, but defending such a case is/ can be extremely expensive, which is why publishers, like this forum, are careful to avoid such accusations. There are weasel words ('allegedly' etc.) which can sometimes get round this - in this case the alleged perpetrator has only been reported as saying what he has, this is not the same as he himself publishing this. So Admin was quite correct, and is protecting this forum for the rest of us.

[Administrator]

MattyBahatty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> None of this is libellous.

You have not seen the removed posts and therefore you are wrong.

This thread will be removed shortly.

[KidKruger]

Efforts need to be on recovering the child fox/ensuring it - have you any contacts with bodies (no pun intended) that can advise or help ?

Also, what area broadly ?

[Administrator]

Removed because it has become a legal issue - Admin