Stranded Birds

[The Minkey]

There will always be people who don't see the point in doing a good thing.

[Green Goose]

I'm with MM too.

The same naive tree-huggers think that foxes and badgers are such cuddly, lovely little creatures.

They must be, because they first saw them in children's books.

GG

[The Minkey]

Part of the reason we are experiencing a decline in bird populations is because we are destroying their habitats so whether or not one thinks it appropriate for these particular chicks to have been rescued it is entirely appropriate for tree surgeons to be pulled up on this point because leaving a nest in place but completely exposed is not an acceptable solution. The best time for pollarding according to the RHS is late winter / early spring which neatly gets round the issue of nesting birds.

[civilservant]

What The Minkey said

[owlwise]

What about the babies' parents who'll return to feed them and find an empty nest? :-(

Despite this, well done to everyone showing concern for the little creatures. It's nice to know that there are some people out there who notice these things.

[Jeremy]

Nobody has answered my previous point, so I'll ask again. What other types of animal would the council go to these lengths to rescue? Hedgehogs? Squirrels? Mice?

[billybiro]

All of the above if work carried out by council contractors disturbed them/put them at risk,and this was noticed n reported i suspect. Whats the problem dont you like animals?

[Green Goose]

billybiro Wrote:

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> All of the above if work carried out by council

> contractors disturbed them/put them at risk,and

> this was noticed n reported i suspect. Whats the

> problem dont you like animals?

I have to dig out my garage foundations next week but I know there is a rat's nest under the floor, Does that mean I have to call the council to relocate our little friends and give Liberal Democrat Cllr Robin Crookshank Hilton an opportunity to be seen to be doing good deeds for the community?

Pidgeons! I've shot more bloody pidgeons than she got votes at the last election!

GG

[Jeremy]

billybiro - yeah, actually I do like animals (most of the time). I was just wondering whether birds get special treatment, or if we'd go to the same lengths for all animals.

I do not think that Southwark council would rescue baby mice or rats whose nests had been damaged as the result of council work. In fact, I think that if a nest was found in a public space, the council would exterminate them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have rescued the pigeons. I am just wondering why we kill some vermin, and go out of our way to save others.

[aquarius moon]

Pigeons are not 'vermin'.

They are living creatures.

[binary_star]

Surely the point is that the responsibility of fixing the problem lies with those who caused it, not some 'special' treatment given to pigeons...

[Marmora Man]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> Pigeons are not 'vermin'.

>

> They are living creatures.

The pigeon in London is a broadly descended from the Rock Dove that lived on cliff faces. It is now feral with few natural predators, altho the increase in raptors in and around London has had some impact. Disease is probably the most likely cause of pigeon death and many pigeons look disgusting with fleas, damaged limbs and beaks. It's average life span is probably no more than 2 - 3 years.

With hundreds of thousands in the London area and given that they foul streets, shop fronts, statues. parks and al fresco eating areas they are considered to be vermin. To expend many man hours of council resource (whether or not according to rch that these resources have "already" been paid for) on savings the lives of two such birds is just ridiculous.

[rch]

Technically pigeons are protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, they are not considered to be pests. Rats and mice (and certain insects) are legally considered to be pests (a danger to public Health and Safety) and subject to pest control legislation.

I've done lots of casework on foxes - for the record, they are not classed as pests and are protected by legislation:-

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/news/article/64/living_with_urban_foxes

I responded to this situation because, technically, our tree contractors shouldn't have left the nest uncovered as shown in my photos, the baby birds were exposed in the torrential rain and could have died.

[Jeremy]

Thanks for the explanation Robin.

[billybiro]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> aquarius moon Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Pigeons are not 'vermin'.

> >

> > They are living creatures.

>

> The pigeon in London is a broadly descended from

> the Rock Dove that lived on cliff faces. It is now

> feral with few natural predators, altho the

> increase in raptors in and around London has had

> some impact. Disease is probably the most likely

> cause of pigeon death and many pigeons look

> disgusting with fleas, damaged limbs and beaks.

> It's average life span is probably no more than 2

> - 3 years.

>

> With hundreds of thousands in the London area and

> given that they foul streets, shop fronts,

> statues. parks and al fresco eating areas they are

> considered to be vermin. To expend many man hours

> of council resource (whether or not according to

> rch that these resources have "already" been paid

> for) on savings the lives of two such birds is

> just ridiculous.

[billybiro]

People did something nice for another species that share the planet and it didnt cost anything extra to the likes of MM as workers already paid for/on standby in case any trees down etc. Get over it.

[Marmora Man]

billybiro Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People did something nice for another species that

> share the planet and it didnt cost anything extra

> to the likes of MM as workers already paid for/on

> standby in case any trees down etc. Get over it.

It did cost something - resource. Money is not everyting - time was taken to "save" the lives of 2 or 3 inconsequential birds - thousands of which die every year as a natural consequence of the natural world.

[billybiro]

binary_star Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely the point is that the responsibility of

> fixing the problem lies with those who caused it,

> not some 'special' treatment given to pigeons...

Absolutely

[BrandNewGuy]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> aquarius moon Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Pigeons are not 'vermin'.

> >

> > They are living creatures.

>

> The pigeon in London is a broadly descended from

> the Rock Dove that lived on cliff faces. It is now

> feral with few natural predators, altho the

> increase in raptors in and around London has had

> some impact. Disease is probably the most likely

> cause of pigeon death and many pigeons look

> disgusting with fleas, damaged limbs and beaks.

> It's average life span is probably no more than 2

> - 3 years.

Not true. The original poster said that is was (probably) a wood pigeon, not a feral ("London") pigeon.

> With hundreds of thousands in the London area and

> given that they foul streets, shop fronts,

> statues. parks and al fresco eating areas they are

> considered to be vermin. To expend many man hours

> of council resource (whether or not according to

> rch that these resources have "already" been paid

> for) on savings the lives of two such birds is

> just ridiculous.

See my comment above...

Although I suspect that the council tree people are indeed clumsy with their pollarding, I have some sympathy with their timing. Wood pigeons are almost alone in breeding nearly all year round, whereas most other species have fledged long before the end of August.

[kiera]

The rescued baby birds were indeed wood pigeons - a bird of the countryside, which nests in trees (and doesn't scavenge in bins).However, MM has raised the issue of feral pigeons, which, as everyone knows (I thought) nest in buildings, as do many other birds, including the endangered sparrow. Perhaps this opportunity could be taken to establish the council's policy for their contractors who discover nests during building work. Robin, could you ask the question?

[civilservant]

>It did cost something - resource. Money is not everyting - time was taken to "save" the lives of 2 or 3 >inconsequential birds - thousands of which die every year as a natural consequence of the natural world.

Some logical fallacies here! It sounds like you are blaming the pigeons for the thoughtless pollarding that caused the wasted resource. A bit like the 'they were asking for it' argument. What about the jobsworths who actually did the work?

As for 'inconsequential', well...

Humans are animals that distinguish themselves from the rest of the natural world by taking responsibility for their actions and by being humane, to animals as well as to other people. Some of the people on this thread seem to undertsand this better than others.

[LondonMix]

Well said. Human action caused the issue and so it is not unreasonable for humans to intervene to correct the problem. Why this bothers some people so much is beyond me.

civilservant Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >It did cost something - resource. Money is not

> everyting - time was taken to "save" the lives of

> 2 or 3 >inconsequential birds - thousands of which

> die every year as a natural consequence of the

> natural world.

>

> Some logical fallacies here! It sounds like you

> are blaming the pigeons for the thoughtless

> pollarding that caused the wasted resource. A bit

> like the 'they were asking for it' argument. What

> about the jobsworths who actually did the work?

>

> As for 'inconsequential', well...

>

> Humans are animals that distinguish themselves

> from the rest of the natural world by taking

> responsibility for their actions and by being

> humane, to animals as well as to other people.

> Some of the people on this thread seem to

> undertsand this better than others.