GCSE Results 2012 for Lewisham & Southwark

[prickle]

millymol said "With year 6 parents currently trying to choose schools for next year it seems unfair to withhold this information from them."

Totally agree. Its essential information.

There is a thread on mumsnet on the topic http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/1573637-Kingsdale

It appears that there has been a huge staff turnover last year.

[Fuschia]

Does a good school really stop being good because of a dip in gcse results?

[Townleygreen]

Fuschia said "Does a good school really stop being good because of a dip in gcse results?"

To which I would say, NO! But...

prickle's comment about a "huge" staff turnover WOULD concern me if I was looking at where to enter my year 6 child for. I have also heard comments about this fact. I would be interested in precise numbers of staff turnover rather than words like huge.

[prickle]

According to a Guardian article, the situation is "the departure of at least 40 teachers over this academic year, including 15 from science alone. The school started the year with 125 teaching staff".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/02/speed-read-academies-teachers-meals

That is pretty massive - a third of teachers leaving in one year! I will try and get this confirmed when I visit the school with my Y6 child. Renata, is this something that you can look into?

[Curmudgeon]

For anyone looking for a secondary school and wanting actual published data please see http://www.education.gov.uk/. Please note that the DFE does not publish results until January of the following year.

There are performance tables, school characteristics and information to help your decision.

In my experience, and understanding, the definition of 'choice' when it comes to your child's education is not what we come to expect. We have a limited version of choice, we can decide the ones that won't go on our list and rank our preference but that isn't really choice is it?

Do not leave gaps on your application form - fill all 6 places.

Good luck and stay sane.

[millymoll]

I do agree with Townley Green and Fuschia. Of course a school shouldn't be judged on a year's results - we all know intakes vary. However, I do think it says something about a school if they try to hide their results.

[Fuschia]

Mm: that's true, but at this stage no school's results are final yet - and it's a sign of the scramble to hit targets and top league tables that some schools are playing their cards very close to their chest.

I think the best indication anyway, that a school will do well by your child isn't the % of 5a*-c but the % achieving 3 or more levels of progress between ks2 and ks4 - this is what will tell you how many primary high flyers got the a grades at gcse that they should be aiming for, for eg

[Curmudgeon]

National expectation is 5 sub-levels of progress across ks3 ..years 7 to 9 although 6 or 8 should be achievable

[Fuschia]

I meant 3 full levels from end of ks2 to end of ks4

Ie a level 4 at end if y6 should mean a minimum of grade c at gcse

A level 5 should mean an a or a b

http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/schools_09/s11.shtml

As the % 5 a*-c is as much a measure of the school's intake, as anything, looking at the % making the required progress will tell you more

[Fuschia]

Neat - http://www.hovepark.brighton-hove.sch.uk/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=46555

[BB100]

prickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> According to a Guardian article, the situation is

> "the departure of at least 40 teachers over this

> academic year, including 15 from science alone.

> The school started the year with 125 teaching

> staff".

>

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/02/sp

> eed-read-academies-teachers-meals

The problem with this article is that we can't be sure of the source and previous threads about Kingsdale have proved that there are some ex-staff with a grievance. I remember some Kingsdale parents coming on the forum when the article was published to say their children had the same teachers as the previous year and so were not aware any had left. And as I mentioned in my OP lots of schools are not publishing results, and neither are the LA's, which usually do, even when the school doesn't. Even lots of grammar schools have not published their GCSE results this year either, although they have published their A'level results. So I think it's a bit unfair to single Kingsdale out.

[Townleygreen]

BB100 stated:"So I think it's a bit unfair to single Kingsdale out."

All I would say to this comment, is that why have the others schools in the borough that the EDF is interested in, published their results, when Kingsdale haven't?

How is that singling this school out?

Surely they have drawn this attention on themselves???

(answers on a postcard please)

[BB100]

?? Perhaps for the same reasons lots of other schools haven't.

[Curmudgeon]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I meant 3 full levels from end of ks2 to end of

> ks4

> Ie a level 4 at end if y6 should mean a minimum of

> grade c at gcse

> A level 5 should mean an a or a b

>

> http://www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/scho

> ols_09/s

>

> As the % 5 a*-c is as much a measure of the

> school's intake, as anything, looking at the %

> making the required progress will tell you more

Absolutely people should look at the published stats and not listen to too much conjecture. And personally I'd view the progress data too but bearing in mind it's cohort not individual based, and cohorts can change significantly year on year

If it helps those in the process of looking at the moment I'd like to add IME it's not as simplistic as that chart would make one think. 5 sub-levels national expectation at KS3 (remember KS2 4b target is not an average but an expectation so you'd see circa 80% of students acheiving this - think Bell Curve ) so a 4b entry should become a 6c at end of Y9. That said I've seen a decent percentage of students move 4-6 sublevels in Y7 alone and it is the end of KS3 grade that we look at to give a projected attainment at GCSE. Level 7 at end of Y9 (KS3) equates to a C grade, an 8 to a B grade (eg their base level at starting KS4)

Of course with the insecurity over what our current year 7s will be taking at KS4 level it's difficult to project anything.

Good luck all

[Townleygreen]

Curmudgeon, what the f@ck are you boring on about above?

[Fuschia]

I follow it :-)

But I was picking out the ks2 progression as that's CtuAlly part of the stats published by the govt as part of league tables, and the measures show more about a school and the difference it is making than plain gcse stats do, given that some schools have quite different intakes to others.

[Curmudgeon]

Townleygreen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Curmudgeon, what the f@ck are you boring on about

> above?

Rude!

My post was meant to help those who are looking at the mind-boggling statistical data published around schools. If you can't follow it and want to understand more I'd be happy to help. I do appreciate that some people prefer to discuss unsubstantiated rumour and, whilst possibly more interesting, would suggest that such commentary does not provide the best information to evaluate education for your children.

[intexasatthe moment]

I see that the mumsnet thread on Kingsdale referred to by prickle has been deleted " for legal reasons " .

[prickle]

Yes, it seems that they've been up their old tricks again.

[tiddles]

actually I am quite glad - it was beginning to spin out of control again and was getting rather bizarre!

[intexasatthe moment]

I thought the posts about statistics and looking at them carefully were interesting and helpful .

Though ,if I understood them correctly ,and I may well not ,strike cold fear into my heart in that a childs expected perforance seems so closely linked to their performance when they were even younger .

What I do find bizarre is that there is a state school with a very complex ,far from clear admissions policy ,an exams admin system that has had to be investigated ,teachers who have told Ofsted of their concerns over the SMT ,an alleged high number of teachers leaving and that discussion of such matters brings down no clarification but threats of legal action regarding libel .

[Townleygreen]

Well said, InTexas!

It's just a pity (and worrying) that the school's management is so lacking in glasnost (openness), as we used to say in Gorbachev's time.

It just convinces people that there is something that needs fixing there.

[Carbonara]

It is bizarre that any state funded statutory service provider can decline to publish results. Though of course they will be on the DoE website on due course. After the current admissions round.

There should be more openess and accountability. There should be good routes for unhappy employees (and parents and children) to raise and discuss concerns. All this secrecy leads to gossip and the sound of grinding axes, none of which is good for the many children who are working hard, taught by hardworking staff. Or for parents who know that their child is doing well but keep hearing negative rumours of the kind which could easily plunge the school back into a spiral of decline. Which would be very sad.

[intexasatthe moment]

I understand that Kingsdale is to be featured on the 7pm news tonight on channel 4 ,so perhaps a few things will be cleared up then ?

[Curmudgeon]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought the posts about statistics and looking

> at them carefully were interesting and helpful .

Thank you. I appreciate your saying so.

> Though ,if I understood them correctly ,and I may

> well not ,strike cold fear into my heart in that a

> childs expected perforance seems so closely linked

> to their performance when they were even younger

Be careful not to confuse a national statistical government expectation with good practice in schools. Students will be baseline assessed and reassessed throughout KS3 as progression is not in a straight line. In the end it must always come down to the individual student and not the average attainment of the cohort.

> What I do find bizarre is that there is a state

> school with a very complex ,far from clear

> admissions policy ,an exams admin system that has

> had to be investigated ,teachers who have told

> Ofsted of their concerns over the SMT ,an alleged

> high number of teachers leaving and that

> discussion of such matters brings down no

> clarification but threats of legal action

> regarding libel .

Agreed but I for one am concerned that many repeat 'facts' because they've read them online when there may be little or no foundation to them in the first place, and yet they gather momentum; that the publicity over the exam whistle blowing is highly unusual, and in my personal opinion it is highly inappropriate for anyone to have put this in the public arena in the first place.

I am convinced part of the issue is that Cameron praised Kingsdale in the press. Gives a great journalistic hook for any negative news. I bet they regret allowing the PM to visit!

Unfortunately the negative discussions are detrimental to reputation. I personally feel the head teacher is wrong not to issue a public statement at this stage but I doubt that any such statement would halt the denigration of the schools reputation in public fora and would possibly escalate discussions so its a no win.

Overall it leaves a bitter taste. This is a local school under a negative spotlight despite statistical and inspection evidence talking of happy students who benefit from a good education in a safe environment. I am pleased that the school will be having a full OFSTED sooner rather than later, triggered by the section 8. I hope the senior management and board of governors will be focusing on improving staff morale and management practice in the meantime.