Traffic barrier - Goodrich Road

[Jacqui5254]

And they were going to tell/mention/discuss with us residents....when?

[Siduhe]

Jacqui5254 Wrote:

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> And they were going to tell/mention/discuss with

> us residents....when?

They aren?t. It?s all being done under the guise of emergency Covid-19 measures on a ?temporary? basis with the possibility of being made permanent in future. I?m all for sensible, thought out measures to benefit the ED community as a whole but this feels like a total subversion of the democratic process.

[Roky Erickson]

We have to do all we can to stop this. They?ve already amended the original plans once, and say above that they are ?currently in talks with the school?, so hopefully there?s something we can do. Please please do write to the people named above.

Does anybody here know anyone at the school who could be involved ?

Siduhe Wrote:

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> Jacqui5254 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And they were going to tell/mention/discuss

> with

> > us residents....when?

>

> They aren?t. It?s all being done under the guise

> of emergency Covid-19 measures on a ?temporary?

> basis with the possibility of being made permanent

> in future. I?m all for sensible, thought out

> measures to benefit the ED community as a whole

> but this feels like a total subversion of the

> democratic process.

[intexasatthe moment]

If they are in talks with the school why aren't they in talks with the residents living in the area between the barriers ?

[Nigello]

The road is no longer used in the same way as it was twenty-odd years ago when the mini roundabouts at Dunstan?s and Upland (always ignored, poor things) and the narrowing of the road/extending of pavement near Dunstan?s were put in. They used to have yellow zigzags on the school side but they were taken away when, I think, the council extended them on the Dunstan?s and/or Upland sides. Since then, double yellows have extended at the four corners so less overall parking is available.

I am pleased the road is being looked at because I have witnessed arguments and road rage and also felt the shaking of the house when heavy vehicles - the kind you see on motorways with eight wheels - go past at speed (because the bumps are worn out from heavy and frequent traffic) and then brake when the driver sees the road has been narrowed (as a safety feature, remember?)! For a few years I have asked about the possibility of a one way system or a temporary barrier. This goes further and I am on the whole please with it. Others may disagree and it is their right to do so and to get their point across to those who have the power here.

I am displeased that the council sent an officer, published a report with a map saying it would be cut off at both ends with ugly concrete bollards, without having consulted at least the householders on that stretch.

At least Southwark has responded quickly and in good faith, so I am glad about that. I did, though, spell out my and others? dissatisfaction at the lack of taking ideas of residents into consideration.

[Jacqui5254]

In my opinion, Goodrich Road isn't a 'cut through', its a residential road.

Temporary barriers to protect schoolchildren by all means, but changing access in this way will result in all sorts of problems.

What about access for larger vehicles, deliveries, building works, emergency vehicles? This road isn't wide enough for u-turns to be performed safely for all but the smallest car.

Surely if you make a road a 'cul-de-sac' you have to make provision for vehicles to exit as well as enter?

Giving the school the responsibility without discussing with residents is barmy. Everyone uses these roads differently and we know the ins and outs of accessing these roads, plus residents have different needs.

When the council drastically reduced parking spaces by extending the double yellows on every corner, it increased the number of times the residents have to drive around Dunstans, Crebor and Goodrich roads trying to park. Altering this stretch of Goodrich will add another layer of complication which, in turn, will add to the more pollution and car use.

Looking at the plans I think it was a project given to the 5yr olds..."how would you make this road safe for children to walk to the school"

"Miss, Miss!! Put big lumps of something hard at each end and then no one can get in!"

"Well done Timothy. We'll go with that."

[Rockets]

Was there any update on this - are the council still going ahead with one permanent and one moveable barrier on Goodrich road and can we expect to see these go in in a matter of days?

To Jacqui5254's point - these plans seem a bit odd. BTW are there similar traffic calming measures outside Heber?

I do hope all those impacted are putting their weight behind One Dulwich.

[Roky Erickson]

I emailed Councillor Maggie Browning last week, who responded by saying she would be "seeking clarity from officers on how the road closure will work in practice and what times of day it will be in place".

In terms of the consultation with residents, she also said: "The comments on the website were from me as a local councillor and I was referring to the need to inform the school, school governors and residents of these plans before they are put in place. I will be checking this has been done"

I shall follow-up again with her now, but I would urge anybody else to write to her too

Rockets Wrote:

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> Was there any update on this - are the council

> still going ahead with one permanent and one

> moveable barrier on Goodrich road and can we

> expect to see these go in in a matter of days?

>

> To Jacqui5254's point - these plans seem a bit

> odd. BTW are there similar traffic calming

> measures outside Heber?

>

> I do hope all those impacted are putting their

> weight behind One Dulwich.

[katgod]

No there is nothing like this on Heber Road. Nearby examples include Harris Primary on Landcroft Road (junction with Whateley Road and Sylvester Road), the area outside the school is closed to traffic by a big concertina style barrier that is wheeled in and out of the school playground for 45 minutes or so around pick up and drop off times. Nothing permanent except the signs warning of the street closure. Bessemer Grange school has a different solution with bollards in the road that are raised and lowered at the busy times. I would think the Landcroft Road approach would work fine at Goodrich. Permanent closure seems very heavy handed.

[Roky Erickson]

Dear Resident

I am writing to you following the recent contact you made relating to our proposed measures on Goodrich Road between Dunstans Road & Upland Road.

Following further discussions, we have decided to de-scope the proposed scheme in order to ensure access is maintained at all times to residents. We did approach the school about a potential timed closure operated at one or both of the junctions, however they felt it would not address the main issues they?d raised and that they did not have the necessary resources in order to be able to operate the barriers in the morning and afternoon.

As a result, we have proposed to close the junction of Goodrich Road and Dunstans Road which should tackle the issue of HGV?s using the narrow road as a cut through, whilst also maintaining access for residents. We have also included the plans to temporarily widen the footways around the main gates in order to facilitate social distancing and encourage active travel. This is part of a borough wide approach and we are currently looking at implementing these measures at around 12 schools.

I must stress that these amended proposals have not yet been signed of by the cabinet member, and we await feedback from yourselves, the school and ward councillors before proceeding. If we are to proceed then these measures will be implemented as part of an Experimental Traffic Management Order which usually has a duration of 12-18 months. As part of an ETMO the consultation period runs concurrently with the duration of the order, as opposed to a regular permanent TMO where there is 21 days statutory consultation prior to the Order being made.

I hope this information helps, if you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards

George Mellish

Principal Engineer (Acting)

Transport Projects

Highways

Environment & Leisure

Southwark Council

3rd Floor, Hub 2

160 Tooley Street

PO Box 64529

London

SE1P 5LX

07736121924

[Rockets]

So the measures being put in place to help the school didn't actually work for the school and the school rejected them....anyone else think the council isn't giving this the level of thought and planning required for such measures?Also, given the junction of Goodrich and Dunstans is a roundabout which part of it are they going to block?

Also, are the measures at 12 other schools on the list of emergency plans the council has listed on their site or will these just pop up without any consultation with local residents? Look at the disaster the Goodrich scheme would have been for the residents on the street - thank goodness they were able to intervene.

[first mate]

Can we deal with Melbourne Grove next, which looks set to be a drop off point for Charter down the line?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Please put a barrier on Heber Road if Goodrich residents don't want one.

[Rockets]

Rahrahrah - it looks as if the school didn't want one - or certainly not where the council wanted to put it. Quite pointed that the council seemingly hadn't consulted the school prior to these plans being drawn up which seems ludicrous to me - and demonstrates the haphazard and knee-jerk approach to these things by our elected representatives.

What do they say about the 6 Ps of planning/performance......;-)

[intexasatthe moment]

Right ,so they are de-scoping the scheme .What exactly does "de-scope" mean ?

[first mate]

More than that Rockets, it shows these measures have very little to do with the stated aims.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Rockets Wrote:

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> Rahrahrah - it looks as if the school didn't want

> one - or certainly not where the council wanted to

> put it. Quite pointed that the council seemingly

> hadn't consulted the school prior to these plans

> being drawn up which seems ludicrous to me - and

> demonstrates the haphazard and knee-jerk approach

> to these things by our elected representatives.

>

> What do they say about the 6 Ps of

> planning/performance......;-)

I certainly wouldn't defend the councils approach to 'healthy streets', or consultation in general.

[first mate]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> Right ,so they are de-scoping the scheme .What

> exactly does "de-scope" mean ?

Fancy ?council speak? for back-pedalling, fast?!

[Gubodge]

I would have thought the main issue for the school is the traffic/dodgy parking on Dunstans. The council?s proposal would have probably made that worse, while requiring staff man hours to manage the temporary closure. I?m not surprised they didn?t go for it.

I live on Dunstans and think closure at this end of Goodrich (if at the very end, not at the narrowing) could reduce some of the most dangerous manoeuvres on the roundabout. It?s also likely to reduce traffic slightly, but is likely to funnel most of it down to Underhill instead.

[James_C]

Stop driving your kids to school ? Take the bus and walk (obviously those with disabilities cannot do so and appropriate arrangements should be made). It's madness to be driving your kids to school in a city like this with so much public transport available - the cost of driving not just for your own pocket but for everyone else (environment etc.) is huge !

[Nigello]

Is there space in the schoolyard to allow staff to park, as this would offset the spaces taken away due to the new plans? I bet there?s room for three or four.

[Jacqui5254]

So, they are going to block off Goodrich Road where it meets Dunstans "to tackle the issue of HGVs using the narrow road" now?

I thought this was about the school?

As this small section of road is completely full with the over-spill of residents parking every evening [since the extended double-yellows reduced spaces on Dunstans and others], we will not be driving round and round looking for a space but driving in and reversing out of this blocked-off piece of road. And so will other vehicles. Right outside the school. Which doesn't "improve air quality by restricting vehicle movement".

Sigh.

[fishboy]

Rockets - it wasn't that the school didn't want a temporary barrier, it's just that they don't have the surplus staff to operate it.

Nigello - the "schoolyard" is actually one of two relatively small playgrounds, both of which are vital areas for the kids to, er, play...

The issue is, and always has been, the level of traffic around the school, particularly at drop off & pick up times when the majority of the families are walking / scooting / cycling to school. I think the council's plan is to make parking / stopping such a pain that people will stop doing it. The extended double yellows didn't work (there were already dropped kerbs there that it is an offence to obstruct!) so I guess this is the next step. I think initially there will be chaos until people realise, then we'll see. But it is the careless, thoughtless, selfish few who insist on parking / stopping / dropping wherever they want, with zero consideration for others, who will continue to do it irrespective of any action. Only policing & fines will have any effect on them...

[Rockets]

Fishboy, not entirely correct - it?s pretty clear what the council relayed to residents about the school?s thoughts on their suggestions...

?Following further discussions, we have decided to de-scope the proposed scheme in order to ensure access is maintained at all times to residents. We did approach the school about a potential timed closure operated at one or both of the junctions, however they felt it would not address the main issues they?d raised and that they did not have the necessary resources in order to be able to operate the barriers in the morning and afternoon.?

They felt it would not address the main issues they?d raised. I read that as the school had relayed their wishes and what the council suggested in return didn?t work for them.

Your point about people dropping children at school is a valid one and this doesn?t fix that, it just creates drop points elsewhere. The council sends traffic wardens and CCTV cars to sit outside many schools, have they sent any to Goodrich to police the school drop time?

[fishboy]

There used to be a CCTV smart car many, many years ago, but I think the council realised they'd make way more money relocating it to Lordship Lane, to penalise unsuspecting charity shop donators parking outside M&S before 10am...

There was a period of a few weeks, maybe six to twelve months ago, when there were occasional visits by traffic wardens and police, but they were so conspicuous that the usual parkers / stoppers spotted them a mile off and just carried on up the road. Also they only seemed to be looking for offences right outside the main gates, rather than the extended double yellows and dropped kerbs by the mini roundabouts.