Protest against "Khan's Bargain Limited"

[Otta]

LegoLawer who started this thread has apparently posted 3 times opn the forum. Only 1 of those posts appears visable (the opening post of this thread, which s/he has not returned to since). A good effort in trolling.

Agree, let this one go away.

[KidKruger]

Yes I was sticking my neck out a bit, suggesting more realistic scenarios of what may have happened (if anything).

Same posters who labelled the Afghans racist allege same for me so there's a default behaviour there IMO (card being played). If there's no dates/names/details to be shared then ditch it, Khan's do not recognise the comments made earlier concerning their collective beatings on innocent people.

[LadyDeliah]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But the really worrying stuff in this thread is

> the implication that Afghans are violent, racist

> people who go around beating the crap out of

> innocent black teenagers for the hell of it.

> People should be pulling LadyD up on this gross

> generalisation.

I dated one of the Afghan shopkeepers for about a year last year and was with him on the day the big fight actually happened. My comments on the Afghan shopkeepers involved in the issues with the black youths have been limited to the people I actually know first hand and are based on the comments and attitudes I witnessed at that time.

I have not made any general or sweeping comments about Afghans other than to say that they have grown up in a country which has been at war for the past 100 years, which is just stating a fact. I am entitled to assume that has an impact on their handling of confrontation, especially given the shopkeepers involved have told me themselves that they consider themselves to be different from most Asians, in that they would never back down from a confrontation. I have also stated that I think this is an admirable trait and totally understandable.

I have also stated that I have heard first hand racist comments about their black customers from some of the shopkeepers involved. I used to sit in his shop with him and he offered a job to my daughter. I spent time and ate with him and many of the other shop-keepers. I have had arguments with them about this when I was dating the Afghan shopkeeper, but despite him having been in the UK for over 10 years, liking my mixed race daughters and listening to bashment and hip-hop music, his negative views on black people had not changed since his arrival.

While I was relatively supportive of their stand against the Peckham gang last year (and I was there when some of them were questioned by the police), I believe that their negative view of black people and the very light touch of the police last year, has allowed what may have been a turning point in the hold of the gang in Peckham Rye, become an impression that are entitled to abuse young black men as a whole.

If anyone has any closer contact with any of the protagonists in this mess than me, I'd be pleased to hear from them. If not then I suggest you stop making assumptions about something you have little insight into. I am attempting to outline the issues as I see them from my first hand experience.

I have tried my best to bring a bit of clarity to this as many of you seem to be totally confused as to what has been going on because your contact with either of the 'sides' in this is limited and I do not think this taking of sides by people with little understanding is useful. The polarisation this causes can't do anything but inflame things further.

I think the only solution would be for calm examination of the facts and if it is found that the shopkeepers have been taking the law into their own hands, especially if based on racist profiling, that the community and the police let the shopkeepers know that they need to obey the law like everyone else, before the situation escalates.

[steveo]

Shall we stop now?

[LadyDeliah]

Lol, I think that would be nice.

I didn't really want reveal so much about my sordid past, but it seems I had little choice with all the conjecture and insults flying around.

[foodie88]

I am an eyewitness to events which took place on 5th September 2012 on Rye Lane. I have firsthand knowledge of the incident. A young black man returned to collect his ?70 balance for the faulty blackberry playbook he returned; as advised by Khan. During the discussion, Khan laughed in his face, told him he wasn't going to get his money back, called him a 'black bastard' and threw his hot cup of tea in the young man's face. The young man defended himself.

CCTV footage on Rye Lane and at Peckham Rye Station captured the incident. It shows Khan and over 20 shopkeepers /employees armed, chasing the young man and a friend across Rye Lane into the train station to assault them. Many eye witnesses were injured at the station as the 'gang' threw bottles, broomsticks, glasses etc towards the young men. They also threatened women who tried to intervene in the presence of children. The young men defended themselves and tried to prevent them from getting through the barriers to chase them onto railway track.

The young man's parents were contacted by eye witnesses. I spoke to the young man?s parents when they arrived at Khan?s mobile accessories. The parents approached Khan to clarify what had happened. Khan shouted that he would SHOOT both parents and SHOOT their son if he returned to the shop. This was done in the presence of two uniformed Police officers. This incident is now subject to police investigation.

The young man clearly does not fit Khan?s racial stereotyping. Bystanders advised that the young man is an undergraduate. He works with disabled young adults, children and is a carer for disabled adults.

Witnesses to this incident were so outraged that they started the campaign to stop this type of discriminatory practices by Khan owned businesses (including Khan?s Bargains stores) and other Rye Lane shopkeepers. From the demonstrations, various firsthand accounts of similar attacks include assaults on young black women, black middle aged women, young black men, elderly black men and 1 white man. These businesses are clearly flouting Trading Standard Laws.

I was at the initial protest and saw the placard which was offensive. This was immediately redressed by the campaigners and the father of the young man. The placard was destroyed.

Let?s be honest, the campaigners were mainly middle aged women, some elderly and a few middle aged men. Two of them were wheelchair users. For them to come out on a Saturday and demonstrate, there must be a bigger picture.

Do not be racist by condoning the actions of the shopkeepers.

Do not be racist and na?ve by assuming that the young man fits a racial profiling stereotype, therefore he must have done something wrong.

Don't be naive by assuming KHAN CAN'T BE RACIST; he is running a business. The shopkeepers views on Black people are common knowledge in their discriminatory treatment with regard legitimate refunds.

All consumers should be treated with respect. You don?t have to like someone to be respectful in business transactions.

How would you feel if someone who you knew experienced this vigilante behaviour, which is commonplace and illegal?

[Loz]

foodie88,

A quite detailed account of the incident. But you are quite vague in two points:

"The young man defended himself."

"The young men defended themselves..."

Would you care to elaborate? How did they 'defend themselves'?

Also, how come you were there on the day of the incident? Did you know the young man at the centre of the incident?

[Huguenot]

...

[jctg]

I would buy some kitchen foil from there but I would definitely NOT buy a blackberry playbook.

[foodie88]

I was a customer until I witnessed the incident. I will now take my business elsewhere.

CCTV footage will show the young men were ill equipped but did their best to defend themselves. They did not have the numbers or the weapons like the shopkeepers. It was not a fair fight.

[Huguenot]

It doesn't sound plausible.

It sounds like another perspective on events that only has half the story and a quarter of the context.

People not remember the Guardian ad from a few years ago?

It offered two different perspectives on exactly the same event. Both perspectives were true, except that one had a skin head assaulting a businessman and stealing his bag, the other had him saving the businessman's life.

The question is how two completely conflicting accounts could both be true?

It was easy in the end: they both didn't have enough information to understand what they had ACTUALLY witnessed.

[camberwell70]

David Carnell, you said: 'Placards and chants of "Go back to Paki-land" and "Go back to where you're from" would seem to suggest the racism isn't only coming from Khan's employees.'

Then you said: 'this was a first hand account from a colleague of mine. A man who I would trust implicitly and not prone to hyperbole.'

Then you posted: 'So let's be clear here "DebatetheBait@48" - what you are alleging is this:

Someone bought a phone from Khans

It turned out to be faulty

They tried to return it and demand a refund

They were told "no" by staff at Khans

Upon complaining they were summarily beaten up by members of Khans staff

These are serious allegations with serious legal implications. I hope you are aware of that. You should not post rumour or hearsay.

Do you know the person this happened to? Have you reported it to the the police? What was the outcome?'

Can you explain yourself?

This appears to be somewhat hypocritical.

[steveo]

Somebody make this thread lie down

[leon parker]

I had heard about this but only saw the some of the demonstrators this Saturday. The only thing I can say is that I used to shop in Khans all the time but after my experience I stopped. I went with my wife to buy a phone card and was over charged by double the cost. The problem here is why? Did he think that my oriental wife looked easy to con? Was the price was based decimation against her because the way she looks? Would he have tired that on me (white male)? I was slightly behind her at the time. Once he did state the price I stepped in and said forget it and we left.

After reading some of this thread my only comment is that for years many people can seem alright and not seem raciest but it only takes an incident to see what those you thought where OK are not as Ok as you believe.

I know how people behave when amongst their own when they feel safe to make views known about other of a different culture. None of us are immune from this especially when conflict arises.

This does not excuse the actions of threats and criminal behavior. I am not surprised this happened either way because if you try to overcharge people in my book you?re going to also to other dodgy sales as well.

[foodie88]

I only hope those who are extremely cynical do not fall victim to this type of trading breach or violence. The fact that some people disbelief is highly irrelevant. The fact is it was all captured on CCTV. It now has attracted media attention and guess what? Other cases are now coming out the woodwork. Why because others did not think they would be believed. Some cases far more alarming than the incident highlighted. To suggest this could never happen is naive to say the least. It is just same as suggesting you cannot be raped by your partner which we all know is ridiculous.

[foodie88]

Like me you need to keep your eye on the media if you want to know what's happening. Topic is very much live from what I hear! I am sure that it would have died down if it purely hearsay and unsubstantiated. Apparenly there are many eye witneesses so keep your eyes and ears open mate if you want to know what's being reported. Remember Rye Lane unlike Lordship Lane is not a shoppers paradise. Shop keepers hustle! Lordship consumers hardly mix with Rye Lane consumers so have no real idea and live in different worlds so how can they know what goes on in Rye Lane.

[DJKillaQueen]

Like anyone I don't know what the exact truth of the matter is, but what I do know is that if you purchase an item that is faulty, you are perfectly within your rights to return the item and ask for a refund within a certain amount of time. That someone returning an item should end up being chased and beaten with sticks leaves me with a gut feeling that the protestors may have a point. Whatever the truth, obviously something serious happened for the police to be investigating.