More ?Permeable Barriers?

[tiddles]

So if an emergency vehicle has to get into Elsie road (say an ambulance from kings) they have to loop all the way round up east dulwich grove. Thru probably stationary traffic

[ed_pete]

Yep - on my bike coming home this evening trying to exit from Elsie onto EDG (turning right), a journey I have done 100's of times. First time ever traffic was tailing back from the LL junction to the bus stop between Derwent and Melbourne. Still nice and quiet on Elsie and plenty of room for the non-existent pedestrians to socially distance themselves.

[ed_pete]

Lots of vehicles doing reversing manoeuvres and three point turns this morning...

[creditwheredue]

^ Maybe they should read the signs.

[Ginster]

tiddles Wrote:

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> So if an emergency vehicle has to get into Elsie

> road (say an ambulance from kings) they have to

> loop all the way round up east dulwich grove. Thru

> probably stationary traffic

This is what has surprised me the most. The barriers are drilled into the road, so no access for emergency services. I would be very concerned living on Elsie/Derwent/Melbourne and ever needing emergency help. I'm also interested re the comment on bin lorries - indeed how will they turn around, and if they have to reverse up and there are cars behind them that'll be fun!

[heartblock]

It?s a complete ?mare on East Dulwich Grove right now...but it?s only the residents in this higher density, lower cost flats that will suffer. The houses with large gardens and nice quiet gated roads must be enjoying the reduced traffic. The poorest in society are always dumped on.

[eastdulwichlocal99]

heartblock Wrote:

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> It?s a complete ?mare on East Dulwich Grove right

> now...but it?s only the residents in this higher

> density, lower cost flats that will suffer. The

> houses with large gardens and nice quiet gated

> roads must be enjoying the reduced traffic. The

> poorest in society are always dumped on.

Apart from the massive houses on East Dulwich Grove and blocks of flats tucked away on Melbourne Grove.. stop trying to make something out of nothing.

[sally buying]

So all the houses that face the road do not matter? There are more of them than large houses I would think.

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

Lordship Lane has been gridlocked both times I?ve been down it in the last two days and beyond heading to DKH. Even during times when it would normally be quiet.

I?m also wondering about access for emergency services.

What a shambles.

[eastdulwichlocal99]

Main roads busy at rush hour, who?d have thought... shock horror!

[Spartacus]

eastdulwichlocal99 Wrote:

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> Main roads busy at rush hour, who?d have

> thought... shock horror!

But the question is, have the road changes made the roads busier if so that's the real shock horror !

[Abe_froeman]

"Main roads busy at rush hour, who?d have thought... shock horror!"

The whole point of these schemes is supposed to be to stop people driving altogether, not just to shunt them onto main roads (or so their proponents say).

If there is still traffic but it's just move elsewhere then the schemes have failed.

[AylwardS]

Traffic in the area seems worse but schools have just returned and traffic and public transport is always quieter during school holidays so yes the permeable barriers have probably had some impact but won?t be responsible for everything we are seeing.

Also it?s only day two - I saw three cars indicate to turn into the roads and then change their minds. I saw another three try to cut through Melbourne Grove / Elsie Road from EDG only to turn around and come back out further back in the queue of traffic than they were.

How many of those cars didn?t need to be used on that journey? Yes there are some who need to travel by car or times a car is needed but there are also journeys that could be walked / cycled. Maybe those people will leave their cars at home so those that need to drive can complete their journey in a more reasonable time. It?s going to take time for people to change the habits of a lifetime of taking the car to Lordship Lane to walking for 15 minutes.

We like Venice and travel often but it took us by surprise to not call a taxi or going shopping without the car, now we plan where we stay so the route has the least bridges to carry our suitcases over. We understand why the flats we rent have shopping trolleys and the supermarkets have places for you to leave them.

It won?t happen overnight but people might cut back the amount of driving they do.

[Rockets]

AylwardS Wrote:

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> Traffic in the area seems worse but schools have

> just returned and traffic and public transport is

> always quieter during school holidays so yes the

> permeable barriers have probably had some impact

> but won?t be responsible for everything we are

> seeing.

>

> Also it?s only day two - I saw three cars indicate

> to turn into the roads and then change their

> minds. I saw another three try to cut through

> Melbourne Grove / Elsie Road from EDG only to turn

> around and come back out further back in the queue

> of traffic than they were.

>

> How many of those cars didn?t need to be used on

> that journey? Yes there are some who need to

> travel by car or times a car is needed but there

> are also journeys that could be walked / cycled.

> Maybe those people will leave their cars at home

> so those that need to drive can complete their

> journey in a more reasonable time. It?s going to

> take time for people to change the habits of a

> lifetime of taking the car to Lordship Lane to

> walking for 15 minutes.

>

> We like Venice and travel often but it took us by

> surprise to not call a taxi or going shopping

> without the car, now we plan where we stay so the

> route has the least bridges to carry our suitcases

> over. We understand why the flats we rent have

> shopping trolleys and the supermarkets have places

> for you to leave them.

>

> It won?t happen overnight but people might cut

> back the amount of driving they do.

10%. That's all these schemes give you as a maximum. 10% car use reduction and that's probably summer figures before the days draw in and the weather turns inclement - and remember there's a good 6 months of that staring at us around the corner.

How long will it take to "settle down". It's been over two months since the original DV closures went in and there has been no sign of things settling in - the traffic was as bad as ever and is now worse since the schools have gone back. The council's solution? Chase the displacement and close off Dulwich Village completely during certain times of the day.#

10% - is it worth the negative impacts elsewhere?

[alice]

Can roads be redesignated into 'main' roads.

Would some of the problems disappear if court lane was redesignated as a main road.

It is certainly wide enough and does not have the bends and narrowness of East Dulwich Grove.

And would link two, presently cut-off areas.

[Oldtincan]

IMO, the only way the council will rescind these closures will be from pressure from either TFL (e.g. from a material increase in the time it takes the 37 to get through East Dulwich) or from the emergency services. Recall the experimental road closures around Loughborough Junction in 2015 were ultimately killed off by a formal objection by the London Fire Brigade (Brixton Fire Station is stones throw from Coldharbour Lane which bore the brunt of the

LJ closures - more here https://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/11/lambeth-council-u-turn-on-the-loughborough-junction-road-closures-sees-loughborough-road-reopening/). As a regular user of the 37 service to get to the Everyone Active Swimming Pool off Goose Green I?ll certainly be making TFL aware of any decline in service levels (see link here: https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/contact-us-about-buses) and would urge others (if warranted, obviously) to do the same.

[dougiefreeman]

I just submitted a petition to the southwark council website - will post here once approved

[Serena2012]

dougiefreeman Wrote:

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> I just submitted a petition to the southwark

> council website - will post here once approved

Thank you Dougie. This is much needed. The junction of Lordship Lane/ EDG and the Goose Green roundabout just cannot cope with all the displaced traffic. The queues on EDG were all the way back to the junction with Melbourne Grove when I passed just now (at around 10.50).

This is completely unacceptable.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

alice Wrote:

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> Can roads be redesignated into 'main' roads.

> Would some of the problems disappear if court lane

> was redesignated as a main road.

> It is certainly wide enough and does not have the

> bends and narrowness of East Dulwich Grove.

> And would link two, presently cut-off areas.

We could redesignate my back garden as a safari park but it won't mean there will be any tigers.

In what sense are Dulwich Village and the top of Lordship Lane "cut off"? The whole problem is that they're heavily congested for many hours a day!

[alice]

Redesignation would allow current clogging of Dulwich Village [the road] and EDGrove to have a wide alternative route.

Current thinking is to use 'main roads' for traffic taking it away from 'residential roads'. This is, as many posters and the facts have shown, is a fake argument as more people actually live in our local main roads.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The solution to car congestion is not to supply more roads. You could bulldoze all the houses on Court Lane and turn it into a dual carriageway - there would still be car congestion at either end.

[alice]

I thought that might?ve been unpopular. Where do you actually live?

[alice]

I thought that might?ve been unpopular. Where do you actually live?

[Spartacus]

Can we bulldoze Tooley street to see if that helps ?

Strangely predictive puts Toilet in when I type Tooley, maybe it knows something we don't 😆

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

alice Wrote:

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> I thought that might?ve been unpopular. Where do

> you actually live?

I don't know if what you wrote is unpopular, but it was certainly silly.

I don't live on Court Lane (or near it).