More ?Permeable Barriers?

[alice]

Yes silly to think a sensible idea could improve current chaos.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

You're just proposing how it was before - which is how we end up with congestion for hours every day and rubbish air quality. Doing nothing is not an option.

[dougiefreeman]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You're just proposing how it was before - which is

> how we end up with congestion for hours every day

> and rubbish air quality. Doing nothing is not an

> option.

Congestion is far worse right now than it has ever been *because* of these closures. Whilst the fortunate ?few? are benefitting from lovely clean air, everyone else is having to put up with increased air pollution. The extension of the ULEZ will do far more to clean up the air. Why can?t we allow time for that to bed in before messing with all the roads?

I personally think these closures should be reversed for the time being as they are clearly not working.

[JohnL]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Can we bulldoze Tooley street to see if that helps

> ?

They only just rebuilt it - there were some pubs I used to pop into that were flattened.

[geh]

To be honest if I was a retailer on Melbourne Grove, after enduring 6 months of hell I would be apoplectic as to the new closures. How Southwark can justify this closure is a disgrace. The barriers could easily be located just pas Callow Locksmiths satisfying the main objective but allowing retailers trade from the main road.

[bubbachumps]

I think it's wonderful to walk down Grove Vale now on foot, children on scooters. Much nicer and easier. The council needs to take bold steps to address the air quality issue we have locally.

[rachp]

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Redesignation would allow current clogging of

> Dulwich Village and EDGrove to have a wide

> alternative route.

>

> Current thinking is to use 'main roads' for

> traffic taking it away from 'residential roads'.

> This is, as many posters and the facts have shown,

> is a fake argument as more people actually live in

> our local main roads.

But is the point of this to let the lucky chosen few live on quiet residential streets or is it to create safe streets for cycling and walking? I would have thought the former is merely a by-product of the scheme, not an intended outcome.

[sally buying]

bubbachumps Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it's wonderful to walk down Grove Vale now

> on foot, children on scooters. Much nicer and

> easier. The council needs to take bold steps to

> address the air quality issue we have locally.

You missed out the lambs gamboling in the front gardens. All I can see is heavier traffic and jams.

The council needs to exercise common sense not bold steps.

[nxjen]

I walked from North Cross Road up to the station this morning via Melbourne Grove, a trip I make quite frequently and it was much more pleasant than going via LL/Grove Vale, quieter and noticeably fresher

[rupert james]

Once the morning rush hour is over most of the roads are quieter and fresher.

As its Sunday would you not expect it to be less busy this morning.

[nxjen]

The Melbourne Grove way will for the time being like that any day of the week and no busses passing by

[betternowthanthen]

I cannot belive this, first Champion Hill pointless onway system, and it's increased traffic and pollution around the local area, Calton Ave in the village, with it's increaded pollution and increaed traffic, AND NOW all all these extra ones! A 10 min journy took 25 mins beaucse of these poitless road cloures, how can this been allowed to happen, given the despicable pollution and traffic increse? Utter shambles, for the few this is for, not the many!

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

eastdulwichlocal99 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Main roads busy at rush hour, who?d have

> thought... shock horror!

Like I said, this was when the roads would usually be clear.

Same level of insight that Southwark has......

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

dougiefreeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The extension of the ULEZ

> will do far more to clean up the air.

Let's pretend all vehicles from day 1 of the ULEZ run on unicorn farts. How's that going to fix the congestion?

[dougiefreeman]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dougiefreeman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The extension of the ULEZ

> > will do far more to clean up the air.

>

> Let's pretend all vehicles from day 1 of the ULEZ

> run on unicorn farts. How's that going to fix the

> congestion?

There won?t be congestion if all the closed roads are open.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

You're denying there was any congestion before? It was all fake news? We can just sit back, do nothing and enjoy the free-flowing streets we all enjoyed before lockdown?

[northernmonkey]

I?ve set out on the petition thread that if these roads should be reopened, we should also open up all the closed off or restricted roads in East Dulwich to maximise driving ease.

In summary this would include:

Oglander Road: (remove paved area at Grove Vale end to allow a straight cut through up to Bellenden Road and beyond), Ondine Road : remove one way section- benefit as above

Coppleston Road: Make 2 way throughout

Bellenden Road: make 2 way throughout

Oakhurst Grove: remove bollards near junction with Kelmore Grove - to allow access through from East Dulwich Road and remove pressure from the Peckham Rye junction.

Milo Road- remove barriers to allow easy access from Lordship Lane through to the village

Friern Road- remove barriers to allow for alternative to getting stuck down the side of Peckham Rye.

Surely if all these closures were reopened then the gridlock in the area would disappear.

[dougiefreeman]

northernmonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I?ve set out on the petition thread that if these

> roads should be reopened, we should also open up

> all the closed off or restricted roads in East

> Dulwich to maximise driving ease.

>

> In summary this would include:

>

> Oglander Road: (remove paved area at Grove Vale

> end to allow a straight cut through up to

> Bellenden Road and beyond), Ondine Road : remove

> one way section- benefit as above

> Coppleston Road: Make 2 way throughout

> Bellenden Road: make 2 way throughout

> Oakhurst Grove: remove bollards near junction with

> Kelmore Grove - to allow access through from East

> Dulwich Road and remove pressure from the Peckham

> Rye junction.

> Milo Road- remove barriers to allow easy access

> from Lordship Lane through to the village

> Friern Road- remove barriers to allow for

> alternative to getting stuck down the side of

> Peckham Rye.

>

> Surely if all these closures were reopened then

> the gridlock in the area would disappear.

In 10 years of living in ED (and being a driver in ED also) I have never felt congestion was an issue. In fact I would go as far as to say ED felt noticeably quieter than all surrounding areas.

I have never seen congestion like that of what has been in since the LTN meddling.

[tiddles]

Yes I Agree - I used to hate going to Wandsworth as the traffic was so bad. Round here we could easily move about.

I am keen to know whether the emergency services were consulted. Imagine the journey an ambulance from kings now has to make to get to say Elsie road, or near callows on melbourne Grove. A massive loop in possibly stationary traffic.

I wonder how long they are going to let this chaos ensue before some sort of review.

[rollflick]

First Monday 8am after filters installed, so before traffic has settled down and also the return of schools.

As the attached shows traffic is free-flowing. Where there is congestion is the ED Grove/ Townley junction, as usual. Google Maps not showing all the filters, so likely to be extra drivers having to do u-turns.

Yes that junction does need addressing too. Area wide measures to encourage modal shift (not least a borough wide CPZ) would be helpful in reducing congestion there, on top the next stage of Dulwich healthy streets.

dougiefreeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Congestion is far worse right now than it has ever

> been *because* of these closures. Whilst the

> fortunate ?few? are benefitting from lovely clean

> air, everyone else is having to put up with

> increased air pollution.

[Serena2012]

rollflick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> First Monday 8am after filters installed, so

> before traffic has settled down and also the

> return of schools.

>

> As the attached shows traffic is free-flowing.

> Where there is congestion is the ED Grove/ Townley

> junction, as usual. Google Maps not showing all

> the filters, so likely to be extra drivers having

> to do u-turns.

>

> Yes that junction does need addressing too. Area

> wide measures to encourage modal shift (not least

> a borough wide CPZ) would be helpful in reducing

> congestion there, on top the next stage of Dulwich

> healthy streets.

>

>

> dougiefreeman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > Congestion is far worse right now than it has

> ever

> > been *because* of these closures. Whilst the

> > fortunate ?few? are benefitting from lovely

> clean

> > air, everyone else is having to put up with

> > increased air pollution.

As a resident of the Northern section of East Dulwich Grove, I can testify that the traffic does not typically start overwhelming the junction of Lordship Lane/ EDG and the Goose Green roundabout until 8.30. Since 8.30am this morning there have been queues down EDG far beyond the junction of Oxonian.

It is very easy for those who are not living this experience to take random screenshots and photos designed to imply that there is not a problem. Living the experience, as Heartblock has said, we are now averaging 6-9 hours a day of queuing traffic on this section of EDG. And no, it was NEVER like this previously.

For reference, based on my lived experience since last Thursday, the times of extremely heavy traffic are:

Between 8.30/ 8.45 and 9.30/9.45ish on weekday mornings

Between 12.30 and 2.30 on weekdays

Between 3.30 and 6.30/7 on weekdays

10am onwards for 9 hours on Saturday

[FairTgirl]

Hi Serena, I am the owner of one of the businesses on Melbourne Grove.

There are so many different ways of going about this, and plonking barriers down on 4 roads simultaneously with no consultation is not the way to go about it. There are so many other options that could be explored to reduce traffic and pollution on roads keeping residents, drivers and businesses alike all happy.

As well as being very concerned for myelf and the other businesses and our livelihoods, I am a parent of Primary School age children in East Dulwich and I am seriously worried based on what you are saying about the already dangerously high pollution levels outside Goose Green Primary School and the potentially further elevated pollution levels as a result of these closures.

I would like to hear from the pro road closure lobby how increased queues of traffic running directly adjacent to their playground on Grove Vale eleviate their already harmfully high pollution levels?

Additionally since lockdown ED Charter School is directing more pupils to their main entrance on East Dulwich Grove, again the same applies here - how will increased traffic here make pupils safer?

There is a new nursery on Grove Vale, how will increased traffic and pollution on Grove Vale benefit the toddlers and mothers entering and exiting here?

[Zak]

Just walked past the end of Elsie Road, where a couple of guys from Conways were on their phones to their HQ. Seems like Southwark have realised that the planters are a little over the top and one or two may need to be moved/re-positioned to allow the bin lorries to operate.

Evidence of an ill thought out scheme?

Let's see what happens to the planters .............................

[Bagpipes]

For me it's a question of, if it's a trial, what is being trialled and how can any assessment of the scheme be made without a) traffic count monitoring and b) air pollution monitoring?

Surely you shouldn't start something unless you're clear about your KPIs, what success looks like, etc. For all those saying this *will* cause modal shift, how would we know if it does or doesn't?

[Ossito]

It?s my understanding that the final phase of the East Dulwich Charter will build their outdoor sports facilities next to EDG, presumably now next to lots more standing traffic and fumes.

Indeed, I really hope that the health impact of increased fumes on children at Charter East Dulwich, DVI, Hamlet, Alleyns, Harris Primary and Goose Green has been given due consideration. It feels like a lot of children that might be affected by the fumes from increasing standing traffic.

Even if the schemes do achieve their long term ambition, has the council adequately assessed the short term risk to children?s health in these locations?