Make sure that your child's school consults you about the new RSE curriculum

[j.a.]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I would suggest a dice game with your 13yr old

> children, invite your friends to let them see how

> open minded you are so 2020.

If by that you mean tolerant and understanding of the modern world, then guilty as charged. I know it's hard for someone as reactionary and antiquated as you to grasp, but some of us have a grip on what's going on.

Who knows with

> everything so open and moved on, and we know its

> nothing to kids these days with internrt porn etc

> who knows the age of consent may be needing

> reviewed.

Stop being stupid.

> I cannot believe there is no concern over some of

> the content for children. Its ridiculous.

Now you're being wilfully disingenuous, and i shows you up for the unpleasant character you so plainly are. You believe that just because people don't agree with your exact dogmatic beliefs then they have no concern for their children?! How dare you!

If

> parents are happy to have there kids playing a

> game like the dice game, I would say, buy it

> yourself for ?75 and teach yourself whatever

> educational lessons you pick up from it.

> Thanks Niledynodely. Its good to know people are

> making people aware of this weird shit.

It's hardly 'weird' to want to have mature, honest conversations with teenagers about sex.

I can't

> imagine why 13yr old need to discuss retrievable

> objects in the anus. Children who have/are being

> abused, hearing some of these suggestions for

> conversations may feel confused further by there

> own feeling of sexuality which may be very

> different from children who have not encountered

> sexual abuse.

Strawman argument, try to engage with what was actually said.

There is room for change and more

> openess but this should be done very carefully and

> with thought for all differences. Do we really

> need children to be put into situations where they

> are seen as open/bigoted if they dont wish to

> speak nor hear about what people want to do with

> there tongues and an anus.

Again, that's not what was actually said. The descriptions of bigotry referred to cases of open homophobia and the demands for violence against gay people, for example. No one said anything else, you're just making stuff up now.

> Since this was posted in family room I have been

> speaking with family and friends and I've not met

> one person that thinks this is appropriate or

> helpful for children.

Well of course they did - you presented your own version of what was said here so they agreed with you. Given that you've wilfully misrepresented people's post in just a couple of paragraphs I'm not surprised that you managed to basically lie to your 'friends and family' to get the answers you wanted.

TE44, you're obviously a lunatic so I don't expect much sense out of you, but if you're going to argue a point try not to make stuff up. You've basically taken this whole thread out of context, bounced it round your own little echo chamber and decided to be revisionist. Do one.

[Mops]

I can appreciate the OP is coming from a position of genuine care and concern, however I am worried they may have misunderstood the context around RSE.

Let?s take this particular example of the dice exercise and of anal sex being mentioned more generally in RSE lessons in senior schools. Whilst you could interpret this exercise as ?our teenagers being taught how to have all kinds of less traditional of non-reproductive sexual interactions?, you could also see this exercise as an educational opportunity in a safe space to inform young people that there is no ?one? or ?right? way to have sex; sex can take lots of difference forms and means something different to different people - what is key is consent. The effect of this exercise would be the inclusion and acknowledgment of sex for non-heterosexual individuals. In the long term, this reduces homophobia, discrimination and bigotry and actively includes young people who identify as LGBTQ+ or whose parents/ families/ carers may identify as LGBTQ+.

Sex is in pop culture, it?s all over the internet. It?s on social media, in films, throughout song lyrics. A lack of information has far greater capacity to cause harm than any uncomfortable conversations in an educational setting may do, or even teaching a young person about something sex related they hadn?t yet come across.

I appreciate 13 may seem very young, but it is important to remember (1) the typical exposure a teenager of 13 will already have had, whether in conversation, in pop culture or on the internet; and (2) just because certain RSE topics are designated ?13+? doesn?t mean they?re taught at 13; they could be addressed at 16, 17 or 18.

I hope you can try to see this from another perspective, the same way I can appreciate you are trying to protect young people in the way you think is best. My advice would be that it is important to think about how we can protect (and include) all young people; not just those who act like us or who share our own beliefs or sexual preferences.

[fishbiscuits]

Kids are going find all this stuff - and much much more - out so easily, they may as well hear from someone in a position of responsibility that masturbation, sex toys, anal sex, gay sex, etc are actually normal and nothing to be ashamed about.

If you think people using anal toys is "weird shit" you must live a rather conservative life. As for "retrievable"... it's good advice, and could save a curious teen from an embarrassing hospital trip!

The only bit I'm a bit confused about is the "anus/anus" thing.. that is a new one on me and I'm struggling to see how it's even physically possible, but it seems pretty harmless.

[TE44]

Snowy I don't understand your critical analysis/ media comment.

Mops I think its a good idea for children to be given a chance to understand differences. Its the way this is being done. The belief of adults creating safe spaces for children has been shown in the past to harbour people who have very different intentions. I think especially now, more cases of abuse through lockdown. Helping children to understand differences and enjoying there own intimacies does not come through needing to know details of others. As adults if you want to try and imagine how "anus and anus" go together and you want to give it thought youmay have lived a rather conservative life, not refering to you Mops. Totally agree about protecting everyone regardless of differences.

J.a. you really need to get yhis workshops up and running. How to be tolerate and understanding in the new norma. I'd book but i dont think you'd tolerate lunatics.

[sweetgirl]

I have reservations about my child going through with this part of the curriculum & the materials used.

Our school invites parents in to speak to us about it & show us the materials used.

Unfortunately they do it in such a way that there are probably no more than 10-12 parents in each meeting at a time.

(I was told by another parent with older children in the school they used to Invite all year group parents but due to the backlash they previously received they've found a new way to deal with it.)

At the meeting I was at, I remember being the only one asking any questions!

Situations like this make me lose respect for people especially when they speak to me or others in the school playground about what they're unhappy with but are not prepared to bring it to the attention of the school or even show support to parents raising their concerns.

Aside from this I always raise my concerns about things I'm unhappy with but the norm is you become the "trouble maker" parent which tbh doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Unfortunately the so called trouble maker parents are in the minority & I've found many parents are accepting of whatever the school throws at them.

Sad times

[TE44]

Sweetgirl I think people have become more divided, Voicing your views as a minority within a system has become more difficult especially within the current climate, people are seeing how quickly you can be accused of a number of things. Having choices should make a difference but besause there can a be a fight for choice its easier to go with the majority, especially when the majority do not really believe you should have a choice.

I found school a learning experience when my children went, i had many concerns with education and voiced them. I think if you can talk openly to your children, it is wise to be aware of what your children are learning.

[niledynodely]

j.a. Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nidelynodely - stop blaming the schools for stuff

> that is your responsibility.

>

> If you want to indoctrinate your kids in such a

> manner then you?re free to do so as a parent;

> that?s your right.

>

> You?re literally blaming other people for things

> that are your problem to handle. Home school your

> kids or send them to a Catholic school.

>

> I find your insistence that everyone else fall in

> line with your antiquated sense of right and wrong

> frankly appalling.

Unfortunately parents have no way of protecting their children from aspects of RSE which they might go against their religious or personal values. The right to do so was actually enshrined by the UN following the second world war because the last people who had tried to indoctrinate children against their parent's wishes were the Nazis and the UN was trying to prevent this happening again (see below). Much of what is being taught (and I have studied it extensively) goes against the values and beliefs of many parents - encouraging anal sex (evidenced by the largest proportion of people to engage in it being in the youngest adult generation), early sexual debut, treating sex as an activity to be engaged in for pleasure and health (rather than to strengthen a relationship). And so on. It is parents like me who are having our human rights violated. We are not the ones doing the violation.

"Remember: UK law upholds the right of parents to guide the education of

their children as fundamental and protected. This is particularly true of

educational content which has a moral character; schools MUST NOT

undermine the manner in which parents seek to bring up their children.

Schools MUST respect the manner in which you seek to raise your children

in accordance with your own religious or philosophical convictions."

"

[SpringTime]

Can we get back on topic please? If anyone can do the Anus/Anus thing please PM me.

[niledynodely]

>

> The OP has openly stated an opposition to

> pre-marital sex, and believes that teenagers

> should be actively discouraged from it. Good luck

> with that, frankly. The realpolitik is that -

> where sex is concerned - education and information

> mean people are more likely to make good decisions

> (remember we?re talking about adolescents here!).

> The OP prefers the kind of education that prevents

> sexual activity at all. That is both naive and

> dangerous, and far more likely to result in

> trouble.

>

I think if you give children boundaries it raises the bar.

Also it is just I have a different idea of what sort of information we should be giving young people. For example I think we should teach young people that when they have sex with others actual physiological things happen which bond them to one another. This means that you can end up getting really attached to someone who you might not in fact be that well suited to. This bonding, which has been shown to happen also means that it is particularly distressing when you break up. Also there seems to be evidence that the fewer sexual partners you have had when you get married the more likely your marriage is to survive. And that people who have had fewer sexual partners actually enjoy sex more. We should teach all of this in a factual way backed up with data.

Similarly I think we should teach children how masturbation and pornography can be addictive so they need to keep an eye on that. And we should talk to them, particularly to the boys about how the more you masturbate to pornography the more difficult you find obtaining sexual satisfaction with a real person. So if they want to go out into the world and really enjoy sex avoid porn. Even excessive masturbation can make it more difficult for you to orgasm with a partner rather than with yourself. Yeah so these are some of the useful things we could be teaching our children. I can think of other things too.

And quite frankly I can't think of anything more likely to destroy sexual pleasure than having it taught to you by your teachers at school. And that is what we do. Insane.

[j.a.]

niledynodely Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------

> >

> I think if you give children boundaries it raises

> the bar.

>

> Also it is just I have a different idea of what

> sort of information we should be giving young

> people. For example I think we should teach young

> people that when they have sex with others actual

> physiological things happen which bond them to one

> another. This means that you can end up getting

> really attached to someone who you might not in

> fact be that well suited to. This bonding, which

> has been shown to happen also means that it is

> particularly distressing when you break up. Also

> there seems to be evidence that the fewer sexual

> partners you have had when you get married the

> more likely your marriage is to survive. And that

> people who have had fewer sexual partners actually

> enjoy sex more. We should teach all of this in a

> factual way backed up with data.

>

> Similarly I think we should teach children how

> masturbation and pornography can be addictive so

> they need to keep an eye on that. And we should

> talk to them, particularly to the boys about how

> the more you masturbate to pornography the more

> difficult you find obtaining sexual satisfaction

> with a real person. So if they want to go out into

> the world and really enjoy sex avoid porn. Even

> excessive masturbation can make it more difficult

> for you to orgasm with a partner rather than with

> yourself. Yeah so these are some of the useful

> things we could be teaching our children. I can

> think of other things too.

>

> And quite frankly I can't think of anything more

> likely to destroy sexual pleasure than having it

> taught to you by your teachers at school. And that

> is what we do. Insane.

Now, all of that is a lot more sensible and realistic than the utter drivel you were spouting at the start of the thread.

I still think that you need to realise that you?re competing with the internet, and if you don?t have honest conversations with teenagers about a wide range of subjects then they?ll go off and find their own answers, which is fairly risky. Adolescent hormones put up a hell of a fight. You refer to ?boundaries?, and I would say that with teenagers all you can do is explain why those boundaries exist and then hope they stick to them when they?re out of sight. This applies to everything from road safety to drugs.

Why shouldn?t teachers be part of it though? They?re part of great swathes of our kids development, why wouldn?t they have conversations about this? When I was at GCSE level part of our week was a 45 minute session in a small group with a teacher where nothing was off-limits and everything utterly confidential. We discussed what I will only describe as a wide range of topics between us, and it was of great benefit to our personal development. I think like so much else it depends on the teacher. Some teachers are useless and you wouldn?t trust them with the emotional development of a mayfly, but some are wonderful human beings who can help immensely. Writing off the idea entirely is short-sighted.

However, fair play to you, that?s a much better angle.

[Mops]

I cannot begin to describe how disappointed and frustrated I am by the misinformation being peddled here. If I didn?t know this was the OP?s genuine socio-political beliefs (which Google has made clear) I?d presume this was trolling and wouldn?t reply.

As someone who seems to repeatedly assert their role in the field of research, I implore you to please undertake some critical analysis of your primary sources. This ?Values Foundation? you keep quoting has incredibly damaging material on its website which falls very close to the realms of hate crime and discrimination. For anyone interested, please look up their website and from the drop down menu select ?Evidence? (the title says it all really). You will find a one drive account full of homophobic and discriminatory personal beliefs marketed as some kind of fact or ?evidence?. This is dangerous material which should not be being relied upon as good authority.

I appreciate you are stressing a personal concern but please take care to not perpetuate discriminatory beliefs or disseminate misinformation.

[niledynodely]

I think even where they will find out about all this stuff anyway how adults deal with sex will affect how children deal with it. If we do, as many of the curriculums do, treat anal sex as just normal regular sex, explain to them how to do it (as the resources do) etc they are more likely to engage in it (and this is what is happening). And I have yet to see resources which explain the full gamut of health risks which accompany anal sex.

Similarly pornography. If we say to kids "cool, go ahead watch all the porn you like", they are much more likely to slip into addiction. There is loads of evidence to show that pornography acts just like any other drug on the brain - we don't encourage other drugs why encourage porn? Why not say to (young men in particular) if you watch loads of porn, you are going to find it much more difficult to get a hard on when you are with a real woman, you will find it more difficult to orgasm etc etc (all of which is true) it might actually discourage them from watching as much porn - to the benefit of their own sex lives.

So why not provide young people with this sort of information? Besides the evidence suggests that comprehensive sex education actually has adverse effects on sexually transmitted disease and rates of teenage pregnancy so all this stuff about it being good for children is just hogwash perpetuated by sex ed lobbies who have a heap of money to make selling this stuff.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006417.pub3/fullhttps://www.institute-research.com/published-cse.php

https://www.institute-research.com/published-cse.php

[j.a.]

Literally nobody is saying that kids should all get into bum sex (you seem obsessed with this) or watch a ton of porn. That?s your spin on what?s been posted.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, we live on a world where there is almost too much information. Schools and parents need to parse that down into solid facts, which will allow people to make informed choices. Some of them will make bad choices, that?s human nature.

If I didn?t know better I?d say two different people were writing your posts.

ETA - also, what Mops said. Values Foundation = Lunatic Nutjobs

[Mops]

The Values Foundation publishes, on its website, material authored by proponents of gay conversion therapy. I?m honestly aghast Niledy, a researcher, is comfortable demonstrating reliance on this source so publicly on the internet but at least we know where the anal obsession is coming from.

[TE44]

Considering the growing reported cases of sexual assaults in schools, *peer on peer* children should be warned of the dangers of pornography and many sexual behaviours being normalised and put forward as tolerance. and acceptance. This is a problem recognised in education. Its also a problem that highlights the need to help children not only understand there own needs but respect others.

Statutory guidance for schools and colleges, Keeping Children Safe. (Peer on Peer abuse) 27 link , there are many differences in childrens situations and schools also need to understand they are only part of the childrens education, as parents we are responsible.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/835733/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2019.pdf

[seenbeen]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Considering the growing reported cases of sexual

> assaults in schools, *peer on peer* children

> should be warned of the dangers of pornography and

> many sexual behaviours being normalised and put

> forward as tolerance. and acceptance. This is a

> problem recognised in education. Its also a

> problem that highlights the need to help children

> not only understand there own needs but respect

> others.

>

> Statutory guidance for schools and colleges,

> Keeping Children Safe. (Peer on Peer abuse) 27

> link , there are many differences in childrens

> situations and schools also need to understand

> they are only part of the childrens education, as

> parents we are responsible.

>

> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen

> t/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8357

> 33/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2019.pdf

Yes peer on peer abuse is rife. I challenged a boy who had touched a girl and she told him to get off and it was obvious that she was unhappy about it. He actually said 'she likes it really'...unbelievable. There were some advertisements about it a few years ago.

[TE44]

child sex abuse is a huge problem in and outside of school, this is a reality that I believe can be overshadowed by vocal minority groups that although divided outside of school, (gender politics) are now involved with our childrens education around relationships and sex education. there are many children suffering silently while the adults decide about games ans sexual positions that may or may not be fun. Showing some how we*ve become more open and tolerant and moved away from that awkward silence of the past. I think there must be room and respect for others. We*ve seen cases of child rape in our schools along with increasing numbers of sexual abuse. this is a huge problem. the child must be the priority.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/about-us/news-opinion/2020/child-sexual-offences-rise/

[niledynodely]

Mops Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I can appreciate the OP is coming from a position

> of genuine care and concern, however I am worried

> they may have misunderstood the context around

> RSE.

>

> Let?s take this particular example of the dice

> exercise and of anal sex being mentioned more

> generally in RSE lessons in senior schools. Whilst

> you could interpret this exercise as ?our

> teenagers being taught how to have all kinds of

> less traditional of non-reproductive sexual

> interactions?, you could also see this exercise as

> an educational opportunity in a safe space to

> inform young people that there is no ?one? or

> ?right? way to have sex; sex can take lots of

> difference forms and means something different to

> different people - what is key is consent. The

> effect of this exercise would be the inclusion and

> acknowledgment of sex for non-heterosexual

> individuals. In the long term, this reduces

> homophobia, discrimination and bigotry and

> actively includes young people who identify as

> LGBTQ+ or whose parents/ families/ carers may

> identify as LGBTQ+.

>

> Sex is in pop culture, it?s all over the internet.

> It?s on social media, in films, throughout song

> lyrics. A lack of information has far greater

> capacity to cause harm than any uncomfortable

> conversations in an educational setting may do, or

> even teaching a young person about something sex

> related they hadn?t yet come across.

>

> I appreciate 13 may seem very young, but it is

> important to remember (1) the typical exposure a

> teenager of 13 will already have had, whether in

> conversation, in pop culture or on the internet;

> and (2) just because certain RSE topics are

> designated ?13+? doesn?t mean they?re taught at

> 13; they could be addressed at 16, 17 or 18.

>

> I hope you can try to see this from another

> perspective, the same way I can appreciate you are

> trying to protect young people in the way you

> think is best. My advice would be that it is

> important to think about how we can protect (and

> include) all young people; not just those who act

> like us or who share our own beliefs or sexual

> preferences.

Thank you Mops for engaging in a respectful way.

I am familiar with all your arguments and read them all the time in the course of my research. They are the justification for the RSE approach.

My own take on this is I'm afraid that there is a 'right' way to have sex and it would be a great thing to present this vision to our young people. I think this right way to have sex is in a deeply committed relationship with someone you know very well. I think sex should be about strengthening relationships first and then pleasure. I believe the pursuit of pleasure is no more likely to lead to real pleasure than the pursuit of happiness leads to real happiness).

I don't think we should be leading young people to experiment with BDSM and anal sex, or whatever (to find out more about what young people are being encouraged to believe is normal check this article and link on the two links 'oh joy sex toy' and 'this one' in this article. This article is from Sexwise which is a recommended resource in the government guidance https://www.sexwise.org.uk/blog/can-lists-make-your-sex-life-better )

I don't think we should make anal sex seem normal, it really has some serious health risks and I think we should tell young people about this. The only reason we don't is because we are afraid of being homophobic but I think it is far more damaging to gay people to not properly inform them of the risks of anal sex. I think the vast majority of us just accept gay people without thinking to much about what they get up to.

And to be honest my generation grew up by and large perfectly accepting of gay people without having to go through some sort of programme in order to accept them.

I think the dice game could encourage young people to treat sex as a hobby to experiment with and I appreciate that for a lot of parents that is just fine. But I think we should treat sex as something almost sacred. I don't think it is just about consent. When I read some of these materials (e.g. Great Relationships and Sex Education by Hoyle and McGeeney) children are taught that they should not be judgemental about any sexual activity, they are taught that people have sex without any emotion and that is totally fine and they are also taught that sometimes people like a bit of pain. Personally I think all of these teachings are going to leave a young person (particularly a young women) extremely vulnerable. It would have left me vulnerable. I would not have known whether I liked what was happening or not. If I experienced some pleasurable sensation I would have understood this was a good thing. If I had an the same time experienced shame I would have thought that I had an attitude problem. But shame is a useful self-defence mechanism to alert us that we are doing something that isn't good for us. Yet these children will have been taught that they should not experience shame.

I apologise for rambling but talking about sexual and emotional feelings is very complex. And I think these sorts of activities could leave children exploiting themselves, misusing their bodies and not even being aware that they are doing so.

Alternatively this sort of stuff, especially taught to them by their school teacher could actually just put them off sex for a good while. We do know young people are having a lot less sex than my generation (I was born in the 60s) although they are having a much higher proportion of anal sex.

Finally the real issue is that parents values and beliefs should be respected in the education of their children. This has been enshrined in UN law since the end of the WW2 (it was something Nazis failed to do). Those parents who, like me, think that sex should be treated as something special and sacred are having their rights ignored.

By the way I would like to add I was brought up in an extremely liberal way and have arrived at the position I have through trial and error.

[TE44]

Niledynodely, I agree, most people accept gay people in this country without the need to know there sex lives. We live in a culture now where people are afraid to voice there opinions for fear of being accused of being hateful. I believe young people have enough dangerous sexualisation outside of school which I believe reflects in the horror we know many children go through. Children can empathise without feeling they need to be forced into it, as well as disagreeing,without feeling they may be accused of being bigotted etc.

The situation we are seeing with adults, especially round the gender issues, where instad of conversation we see only accusation, like many subjects, the right and wrongs of decisions we make in our life are getting lost and confused with this fear of what might happen if we say the wrong thing. I believe adults, especially when part of a group need to look at themselves, before forcing teachings on children. Often the subject matter is lost and we're left with the victim and bully conversation.

No subject is isolated, although this creates complexity it also brings new things.

I have been looking at increase in children born with differet variations of inter sex. This is a subject that can cover many subject in the cirriculum, open discussions from RSE to enviromental. I do not believe where there is an agenda around inclusion that creates so much divide, it should not spill into our schools where parents choices are removed and the divide continues.

[niledynodely]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> child sex abuse is a huge problem in and outside

> of school, this is a reality that I believe can be

> overshadowed by vocal minority groups that

> although divided outside of school, (gender

> politics) are now involved with our childrens

> education around relationships and sex education.

> there are many children suffering silently while

> the adults decide about games ans sexual positions

> that may or may not be fun. Showing some how we*ve

> become more open and tolerant and moved away from

> that awkward silence of the past. I think there

> must be room and respect for others. We*ve seen

> cases of child rape in our schools along with

> increasing numbers of sexual abuse. this is a huge

> problem. the child must be the priority.

>

> https://www.nspcc.org.uk/about-us/news-opinion/202

> 0/child-sexual-offences-rise/

Yes we have seen increases in child on child sexual abuse in schools. The idea of education is to provoke a child's interest and when they see cartoon videos of penises entering vaginas (Spring Fever) or legs splayed open with everything on view and when they see the free and easy attitude which adults around them have to sex I'm afraid that this contributes towards this abuse.

[alice]

Has anyone looked on the gov. site for RSE.

[seenbeen]

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Has anyone looked on the gov. site for RSE.

Here's the link

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education

I haven't read it all but know what has actually been going on to date and I know that in the Equality section of PSHE/Citizenship LGBTQ+ equality, or contraception is not discussed in some 'faith' schools as they have been allowed to opt out which reinforces intolerance and a dereliction of safeguarding duty in my opinion.

The National Secular Society points out that 'faith' institutions may exploit loopholes.

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2019/06/schools-told-to-take-account-of-pupils-religious-background-in-rse

Primary schools do NOT have to teach sex education at all but they do have to teach Relationships

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education/foreword-by-the-secretary-of-state

second paragraph

[niledynodely]

seenbeen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> alice Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Has anyone looked on the gov. site for RSE.

>

> Here's the link

> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/relatio

> nships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-r

> se-and-health-education

>

> I haven't read it all but know what has actually

> been going on to date and I know that in the

> Equality section of PSHE/Citizenship LGBTQ+

> equality, or contraception is not discussed in

> some 'faith' schools as they have been allowed to

> opt out which reinforces intolerance and a

> dereliction of safeguarding duty in my opinion.

> The National Secular Society points out that

> 'faith' institutions may exploit loopholes.

> https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2019/06/schools

> -told-to-take-account-of-pupils-religious-backgrou

> nd-in-rse

>

> Primary schools do NOT have to teach sex education

> at all but they do have to teach Relationships

> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/relatio

> nships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-r

> se-and-health-education/foreword-by-the-secretary-

> of-state

> second paragraph

Alice there is a distinction between the law which is sound, the guidance which is okay, and the materials which are produced, some of which are fine and some of which are dreadful. Most of the material comes under relationships. I have attended a Sex Education Forum webinar where the person giving the talk said that all the material would get through to the children somehow. So for example what comes under sex education will also be taught in health. Personally I have no issue with teaching about contraception stds etc etc in secondary school. All of this seems obvious. It is the other material which troubles me and there is quite a bit of it.

You can find out more about the resources here: https://rsereview.org/resources/

[Siduhe]

Yes we have seen increases in child on child sexual abuse in schools. The idea of education is to provoke a child's interest and when they see cartoon videos of penises entering vaginas (Spring Fever) or legs splayed open with everything on view and when they see the free and easy attitude which adults around them have to sex I'm afraid that this contributes towards this abuse.

Wow. Just wow. You really went there. It's incredibly disappointing to see this sort of suggestion made in the context of school education. The idea that educational materials contribute to child sex abuse is alarmist, not backed up with any kind of evidence and frankly a gross misconception and misstatement of what is actually being taught.

I think there's a very genuine discussion to have about how best to educate young people about the world they are growing up in and to help them learn and develop without leaving them unprotected, but this an out and out smear.

I fully respect people's concerns about what their children are taught in schools, although I personally believe those concerns are best dealt with by actually getting in touch with the school and engaging on how the topic is taught rather than trying to whip a storm on an internet forum.

My personal view is that education about different kinds of families and how being different from "normal"(whether that's gay, bi, trans or something else) is ok is incredibly important for children who may be struggling with those issues from a comparatively early age and utterly miserable about it, if they don't know and aren't taught that there are other people like them out there. And yes, any education needs to be age appropriate, and just that "education". But conflating that kind of education with child sex abuse isn't the way to have a sensible debate about it.

[ianr]

Ancient Punch cartoon, probablySchoolgirl 1: Hey Trace, what we got this afternoon?

Schoolgirl 2: RSE. I think it's double troilism.

Schoolgirl 1: Oh soddit, not again. I'm bunking off. There's Brief Encounter at the Essoldo.