Jump to content

Traffic fines around Dulwich village - has anyone appealed successfully


Recommended Posts

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The government before last (or before that) was

> supposed to deal with excessive enforcement

> charges, aimed at the private clampers. Not sure

> if they delivered in that manifesto commitment.

> They were also keen on reducing town centre

> parking charges, scuppering a wonderful park and

> ride scheme in Coventry where electric buses

> ferried people into the high street. Not very

> joined up thinking from national government.


Shame they didn?t look at excessive charges from council sponsored schemes??the one at the village roundabout is one of the very worst examples of poor implementations which the council seems more than happy to tolerate as it is good for the coffers and punishes those pesky drivers they so love to hate?..

It was an off thread go at one of the Tory governments Rocks. As for public spirited I am doing that by cutting my carbon footprint having long since stopped unnecessary driving. Although you could also say with all these threads relating to LTNs this has provided a public service in giving good info on where not to drive. I've found it useful and whilst I seem to have had every sort of fixed penalty notice in the past, certainly wont be getting one with the LTNs.


And on all the comments on LTNs being cash cows for local authority what percentage of revenue does this provide? Will be pretty tiny.

  • 2 months later...

I got done on Townley road and got the ?130 ticket.


I then went to a kids party and discovered pretty much every parent there had got similar fines. One had run up ?390 in a morning!


He gave me the number of a successful contest at the London Tribunal - case number - 2210358293 - the PCN was not upheld. Reason being as you enter these areas by the time you are level with the signs it's virtually impossible not to drive through and get a fine!!!


If you quote this number you should have your fines overturned for the same reason.



Alternatively I think anyone living in the village should be made to wear luminous orange vests when they come to East Dulwich and bared from parking or using the shops there.

Hi MCMC - yes, it was me you were speaking to :)


The note above is correct - I was issued with three PCNs, totalling ?390, on consecutive days over half term in June for "33e - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles". The location was at the top of Townley Road, the short section between Calton Avenue and East Dulwich Grove.


I appealed to Southwark and they rejected my case that the signage is inadequate (obscured and misaligned signs on the entry to Townley Road from Lordship Lane).


Incensed, I searched the London Tribunals website (see below, very clunky but the info is there) and found case 2210358293 where the appeal had been upheld.


I submitted my appeal on the London Tribunals website and they upheld it, cancelling all three PCNs. S*rew you Southwark!


My case is not up yet, but if you want to look yourself:

- Go to https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/online-appeals

- Click "Access the appellant portal"

- Click "Statutory Registers"

- Click "Search" under "Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (ETA)"

- Start typing "Southwark" in the "Enforcing authority" box and pick "London Borough of Southwark"

- Type "Townley Road" into "PCN location"

- Click "Search"


Good luck if you appeal also. DM me if you want any more info.

I made a similar appeal earlier this year, i.e. the signage was inadequate, but the appeal was rejected, so I paid the fine anyway.


Will Southwark reverse paid fines, given that others have appealed successfully? It seems a tad daft that those who know a special number get special treatment.

Yup have challenged 35 pcns -all incurred before we received notice of the offence (6-8 weeks before receiving) some have been written off and so me taken to the next level? fingers crossed but not banking on anything. Funny how done were accepted and done not - all challenged on the same basis.
I had to turn into Townley from LL to access Beauval Road to take some shopping to an elderly friend. Would have turned right from LL into Eynella but with bus diversions (12/197) road has been very busy all day and cars having difficulty in finding a space to turn. Hopefully I do not get a ticket! My understanding is that only if you travel the length of Townley (Alleyns end) that you get done.

Yes it is - the threshold is beyond Calton as you head towards the lights.


I noticed recently that they have painted Bus Gate on the road - I don't think that has been there that long has it? I wonder if that is in relation to the Tribunals upholding the appeal and this is the council trying to fix the issue.


Surely if one is upheld on the basis of incorrect or vague signage and then the council takes remedial action then a precedent has been set and all of the fines should be refunded for that junction?


Lots of residents have been telling the council that the signage was not clear enough and it was confusing yet it seems only the threat of tribunals cutting off their cash cow is the catalyst for action!

"Surely if one is upheld on the basis of incorrect or vague signage and then the council takes remedial action then a precedent has been set and all of the fines should be refunded for that junction?"


excellent point ,though no doubt there will be an argument that they are just improving something that was adequate .sigh .

that should be fine - at least I hope it is, we live round there and do that route regularly and have never received a ticket (could be crap postal service of course!).


But this is part of the problem with the signs - the red signs on Lordship Lane say that there is no through road ahead but don't actually tell you exactly where the no through road is - you have to get closer and spot the more detailed sign there, by which time you will have to act sharpish to avoid going the 'banned' way.




Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I had to turn into Townley from LL to access

> Beauval Road to take some shopping to an elderly

> friend. Would have turned right from LL into

> Eynella but with bus diversions (12/197) road has

> been very busy all day and cars having difficulty

> in finding a space to turn. Hopefully I do not get

> a ticket! My understanding is that only if you

> travel the length of Townley (Alleyns end) that

> you get done.

  • 2 months later...
Agh, no post for months and today I get a penalty charge for driving through the village on 28th December which was officially a bank holiday! I assumed that because it was Mon-Fri that would include bank holidays, is that an unreasonable assumption??

Hmm. From the TMOs listed at https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/traffic-orders-licensing-strategies-and-regulation/traffic-management-orders?chapter=5 I've picked out LSP Dulwich trial Phase 2 (notice dated 15 Oct 2020) as the one that may be the relevant one, and can find no mention in it of bank holidays.


And at https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking/parking-enforcement-over-christmas-and-on-bank-holidays, mischievously tucked away on a page entitled Parking Enforcement, I find "all traffic regulations will be enforced using CCTV camera" on bank and public holidays.


I don't know if there are any factors that would incline Southwark nevertheless to treat a bank holiday as exceptional. I can see the City of London saying, in the FAQ at https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/streets/bank-on-safety, that they don't enforce their own Mon-Fri restriction at the Bank junction on bank holidays; which I read as possibly implying that their TMO, which I can't find, doesn't mention them at all. But even if so, it's only an example of what an LA can do, if they feel like it, for one particular location. Is the Village much different on a bank holiday from any other weekday?

Thanks Ianr, that's useful information. In answer to your last question, my understanding is that the measure is designed to reduce the added congestion at school pick up and drop off on weekdays. In my mind a bank holiday has the same status as a weekend, and I think this is particularly harsh.

Except that the restrictions also apply during school holidays. One would think that the technology exists to lift restrictions out of term time. But then there would be less revenue from fines...



sjsl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks Ianr, that's useful information. In answer

> to your last question, my understanding is that

> the measure is designed to reduce the added

> congestion at school pick up and drop off on

> weekdays. In my mind a bank holiday has the same

> status as a weekend, and I think this is

> particularly harsh.

They could simply turn off the cameras when the school hols start and turn them back on when term resumes or if that's too hard not send out fines during school holiday period!


Where there's a will and all that...



Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The technology exists, but there's a limit to how

> much text you can put on a roadsign.

  • 9 months later...

Just received a shocking Penalty Charge fine for £195 for driving on Townley Road at 3:30pm in August.


We had no idea we'd done this, and OK, fair cop, I've now seen the photos online. But.... WE NEVER RECEIVED THE ORIGINAL NOTICE FROM SOUTHWARK. This is not a great surprise, as ED post has been atrocious for several months, we often get things weeks after they were posted.


I've told Southwark we're OK to pay the original £65 fine, but the penalty charge feels outrageous. In this Kafkaesque world, do we have any hope of Southwark agreeing to drop the £130 penalty?

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • What was he doing on the stage at Glastonbury? Or on the stage at the other concert in Finsbury Park? Grinning like a Cheshire cat whilst pissed and stoned 20 somethings on the promise of free internet sung-- Oh Jeremy Corbyn---  What were his policies for Northern mining towns with no jobs or infrastructure? Free Internet and university places for youngsters. What were his other manifesto pledges? Why all the ambiguity over Brexit?  I didn't like Thatcher, Blair or May or Tony but I respected them as politicians because they stood by what they believed in. I respect all politicians across the board that stick to their principles. Corbyn didn't and its why he got  annihilated at the polls. A socialist, anti imperialist and anti capitalist that said he voted for an imperialist and pro capitalist cabal. He refused to say how he'd vote over and over again until the last knockings. He did so to appease the Islington elite and middle class students he was courting. The same people that were screaming that Brexit was racist. At the same time the EU were holding black and Asian immigrants in refugee camps overseas but not a word on that! Corbyn created and courted a student union protest movement that screamed at and shouted down anyone not on the left . They claimed Starmer and the centre right of labour were tories. He didn't get elected  because he, his movement and policies were unelectable, twice. He turned out not to have the convictions of his politics and died on his own sword.    Reform won't win an election. All the idiots that voted for them to keep out Labour actually enabled Labour. They'll be back voting tory next time.    Farage wouldn't be able to make his millions if he was in power. He's a very devious shyster but I very much doubt he'd actually want the responsibility that governance requires.
    • The purge of hard left members that were part of Corbyn's, Mcdonnel's and Lansmans momentum that purged the party of right wing and centrist members. That's politics. It's what Blair did to win, its what Starmer had to do to win. This country doesn't vote in extreme left or right governments. That's partly why Corbyn lost  We're pretty much a centrist bunch.  It doesn't make it false either. It's an opinion based on the voting patterns, demography and statistics. Can you explain then why former mining constituencies that despise the tories voted for them or abstained rather than vote for Corbyns Labour?  What is the truth then? But he never got elected!!! Why? He should have been binned off there and then. Why he was allowed to hang about is an outrage. I hold him party responsible for the shit show that we've had to endure since. 
    • Depends on what the Barista says doesnt it? There was no physical confrontation with the driver, OP thinks she is being targetted when she isnt. These guys work min wage under strict schedules so give them a break unless they damage your stuff
    • CPR Dave, attendance records are available on Southwark's website. Maggie Browning has attended 100% of meetings. Jon Hartley has attended 65%.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...