Why are no cycle lanes being put in on East dulwich

[Penguin68]

as I've said that is what e bikes are for

'Budget' e-bikes run from ?850-?1200 - I should have added 'state pensioner' to the list of 'unwanted guests' - for those pensioners with cars (possibly bought when they were richer) these are sunk costs - springing close to a grand on an e-bike isn't always an option. Particularly if they have nowhere secure to keep them.

[first mate]

And, as another cycling lobbyist has pointed out in the past, e-bikes are heavy and not the sort of expensive item you'd want to leave chained up anywhere. So, for the elderly etc.., how flexible is the e-bike option, in reality? What would they be able to use e-bikes for? Not shopping, not for appointments. Not a lot really.

[Otto2]

E-bikes are amazing! I use one all the time for shopping - with a good sturdy lock like one would for any bike. There are lightweight batteries that can be detached and they are not so heavy. As far as cost, mine was built on an old found frame but the costs are coming down all the time and they are far cheaper than the cost of a car!

I have a regular bike as well. I use both, according to the hills I am facing, and, how my body is - I'm asthmatic and have arthritis in one knee. Some days are better than others. I have cycled on school runs ferrying two kids for years and grocery shopping etc locally on a normal bike and really no issues until fairly recently, when I added an e-bike to help. I used to ride everywhere with no worries on a regular bike, but now an e-bike gives me peace of mind that I won't arrive anywhere sweaty or exhausted or in pain. I can go further and it is almost always faster than public transport to get places.

[first mate]

I am open to the idea of e-bikes. For how long would you feel comfortable leaving your e-bike locked up and unattended? How do you carry larger amounts of shopping on your e-bike? What sort of locks do you use, given e-bikes are expensive? Surely for anyone less than reasonably fit, carrying around a battery is not so easy?For further distances, how have you found using an e-bike on trains?

What about the serious hills either end of ED?

No need to reply but curious about your home set-up and storage. Do you live on a ground floor with plenty of storage space? Where/how do you store your e-bike for secure but easy access?

I am not saying these are not a good idea but am dubious about how practical they really are for the elderly and those with more significant mobility issues.

On a separate note and bringing things back to the thread title, if more bike lanes were added in ED would these also be open to those using mobility scooters. In the past some cycling lobbyists have been very resistant to this idea for fear it would slow commuting cyclists down, they felt the proper place for mobility scooters was the pavement or bus lanes. This also raises interesting questions about who cycle lanes are for, those afficionados who wish for the freedom to cycle everywhere as fast as possible or slow, cautious cyclists?

[handh]

jamesmcash Wrote:

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> Hi all,

>

> We Goose Green councillors have just allocated

> funding for a feasibility study into a cycle lane

> on East Dulwich Grove, and for changes to the

> physical infrastructure around East Dulwich

> station, to make it more cycle friendly but also

> to make it more attractive and inviting.

>

> Best wishes

> James

That's great news a cycle lane along east dulwich grove is being considered, it would be a game-changer for east-west travel. It does feel like there's space, with some creative thinking around residents' parking and the narrower sections at the lordship lane end. I do hope it will be a proper segregated lane though, it's not much fun on a bike with a double decker behind you and can slow the buses down too (seems to be a uniquely british thing mixing in the most vulnerable road users with 12 tonne buses?).

[snowy]

Swytch can convert your existing bike into an ebike easily. Balfes will probably do it for you. The battery is physically small but has a range of 50km. They don?t look like expensive items (in fact it?s hard to tell it?s an ebike) and you can manage any hill ED has to offer.

Panniers and racks have been around for a while I believe, and locks mounted in the frame are negligible. As a ?normal? bike it?s fine to get on trains etc. You?re probably covered for theft and public liability through your household contents insurance but it?s always worth checking.

There?s a try before you buy scheme through Peddlemywheels.com for new bikes of all types. Slightly limited in ebikes- presently as they focus more on domestic cargo cycles and trikes.

[first mate]

So what is the price of the kit and fitting? How long does the battery last and what is price of replacing? What weight does it add to the bike? In terms of battery size, how small are we talking? Guessing if bike theft becomes more and more commonplace insurance charges may increase?

[exdulwicher]

On a separate note and bringing things back to the thread title, if more bike lanes were added in ED would these also be open to those using mobility scooters. In the past some cycling lobbyists have been very resistant to this idea for fear it would slow commuting cyclists down, they felt the proper place for mobility scooters was the pavement or bus lanes. This also raises interesting questions about who cycle lanes are for, those afficionados who wish for the freedom to cycle everywhere as fast as possible or slow, cautious cyclists?

They should be for ALL cyclists. Chris Boardman had a good quote about the desired standard:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20180123-campaigning-news-Made-to-move--Chris-Boardman-presents-walking-and-cycling-report-to-MPs-0

And yes, I'd be absolutely happy for mobility scooters to use them too - which goes back to the standards thing of ensuring they're fit for purpose. I'd be fine with e-scooters too but I know that'll probably be less well received!

More info about the Swytch thing that @snowy mentioned here:

https://www.swytchbike.com/p/universal-ebike-conversion-kit/

There's a review of it here with some pictures and video: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/6026/swytch-universal-ebike-conversion-kit-review

[Nigello]

I find it hard to envisage two cycle lanes (one on each side) in EDG, which is not that wide and has double-deckers and other large vehicles going in both directions, especially rush hours. Is there a danger that accommodating cycle lanes could make it more perilous for the (much) bigger number of users/passengers - eg. pushing large vehicles towards the centre of the road by at least 18" on each side?

[alice]

Edg for buses / bikes etc only

Cars use court lane etc

That could work.

[tedfudge]

alice Wrote:

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> Edg for buses / bikes etc only

> Cars use court lane etc

> That could work.

That would work for who ???

Buses and cyclists only ..

How many buses and cyclists would use that road 24 hours a day ??

Then you are pushing all other traffic along court lane causing congestion and pollution onto and around those streets who is that fair on ???

Motorists do pay to use the roads more than anyone else and it's not just motorists who are a danger to cyclists as cyclists can be just as dangerous to themselves and others like riding at night with no lights on bikes speeding ie going over 20 mph riding through red traffic lights riding too close on the inside of vehicles when vehicles are indicating and about to turn a cyclist keeps going as they think they have right of way the list goes on.. the roads would be safer for all if cyclists were educated on riding bicycle correctly . I have seen many boris bikes being ridden around London at night by people who are drunk or messing about on them by swerving in and out of traffic and pulling wheelie etc.. cant always blame the motorist

[tedfudge]

Highway code for cyclists

6/4/2017

132 Comments

?

Bicycles should be fitted with front and rear lights to make cyclists more visible in the dark.

According to the THINK! Cycling Campaign, the number of cyclists seriously injured has increased in recent years, faster than the increase in cyclists on the roads. If you are planning to start?cycling?on the road, it is important to make sure you have a full understanding of the Highway Code and know how to keep yourself safe. Below we have outlined some of the key rules from the Highway Code for cyclists to follow.

Section 59

Section 59 of the Highway Code explains the appropriate clothing cyclists should wear in order to make it easier for other road users to spot them and help to keep them protected in the case of a collision.

Cyclist clothing:

Helmet ??Your cycle helmet should conform to the current regulations, be the correct size for your head and be securely fastened.

Appropriate fitted clothing ??Your clothing should be tight fitted to prevent it getting tangled in the chain or wheel of your bicycle.

Light clothing?? Light and fluorescent clothing will help you to stand out in daylight and poor light.

Reflective accessories?? Strips on the helmet, as well as armbands and ankle bands will help you be seen in the dark.

Section 60

This section of the Highway Code is all about cyclists? lights and reflectors. At night cyclists must have their white front and red rear lights lit. Their bicycles must also be fitted with a red rear reflector and amber pedal reflectors. White front reflectors and spoke reflectors can also increase your visibility to other road users. Flashing lights are permitted but cyclists riding in areas without street lighting should use a steady front lamp instead.

Cyclists should use dedicated cycle lanes and routes wherever possible.

Section 61

Section 61 covers cycle routes and other facilities for cyclists. If cycle routes are available cyclists should make use of them, as they can make their journeys safer. Cyclists should also use advanced stop lines, cycle boxes and toucan crossings, unless it is unsafe to do so.

Section 62

Section 62 covers the use of cycle tracks, which can be used to make a journey safer. Cycle tracks are usually located away from the road, but are sometimes found alongside footpaths and pavements. Sometimes cycle tracks will have a separate path for pedestrians, however this is not always the case.

If you are using a segregated path, it is important to make sure you stay on the right side of the track to avoid colliding with pedestrians. Be on high alert in case pedestrians pass into your lane without realising.

If you are sharing a path, take extra care and give plenty of room to children, the elderly and disabled people. You should always be riding at a speed that would allow you to slow down and stop if necessary.

Section 63

Cycle lanes are marked by a white line (which may be broken) and are found alongside the carriageway. Although not compulsory, you should use the lanes whenever practical as they can make your journey safer. If you need to leave the cycle lane, always check that it is safe to do so and signal to other road users.

Section 64

Something that confuses many cyclists is whether or not they are allowed to cycle on the pavement. According to Laws HA 1835 section 72 & RSA 1984, section 129, cyclists must not cycle on the pavement.

Section 65

Cyclists can use bus lanes when permitted to by road signs. Take extra care and watch out for people getting on or off buses. Only overtake a bus pulling into a bus lane if it is safe to do so. Do not pass between the kerb and a bus when it is at a stop.

Section 66

This section explains what cyclists should and should not do when riding on the road.

You should:

Keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear.

Keep both feet on the pedals.

Be considerate of other road users, taking extra care around blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Use your bell when necessary to signal you are nearby.

Ride single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

You should not:

Ride more than two abreast.

Ride close behind another vehicle.

Carry anything that will affect your balance or get tangled up in your wheels or chain.

Section 67

Follow the steps below to promote safety on the roads:

Look all around to ensure it is safe to move away from the kerb, turn corners or manoeuvre your bicycle.

Always use a clear signal to indicate your intentions to other road users.

Keep an eye out for obstructions in the road to prevent you from having to swerve to avoid them.

Leave plenty of room when passing parked vehicles and watch out for pedestrians stepping into your path.

Be aware of traffic coming up behind you.

Take extra care near road humps, narrowings and other traffic calming features.

Take care when overtaking other road users.

Section 68

Cyclists should not carry a passenger on their bicycle, unless it has been build to carry one. They must not ride in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner. Cyclists must not ride under the influence of alcohol or drugs (including some medications).

Section 69

Traffic signs and traffic light signals apply to all road users. Cyclists must obey them.

Section 70

Just as there are parking rules for vehicles, there are also ones for cyclists. You should always aim to use cycle stands of cycle parking facilities wherever possible and avoid leaving your bike where it would cause an obstruction or hazard to others.

Section 71

A red traffic light applies to all road users. Cyclists must not cross the stop line if the traffic lights are red. Use the separate stop line for cyclists when practical.

[alice]

ok taxis too

[tedfudge]

alice Wrote:

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> ok taxis too

😂

[DuncanW]

? it's not just motorists who are a danger to cyclists as cyclists can be just as dangerous to themselves?

I don?t think the data bear that out. Around 100 cyclists are killed every year in the UK. Statistically, a cyclist kills 1 pedestrian every couple of years.

That doesn?t excuse the behaviour of some cyclists, but a cyclist disobeying the Highway Code is unlikely to result in the death of another road user. Thankfully.

[malumbu]

A fairly sensible question posed in the thread, but this has gone into wider discussion which is the Lounge's territory. It saddens me that every time cycling is discussed then some feel it is right to trot out the same old anti-cycling diatribe, no doubt exacerbated by the toxic issue of LTNs.

Quoting large sections of the Highway Code really takes the biscuit. As someone with advanced driving and cycling skills I'm in a better position than most to judge. I could add sections on the Highway Code about safe driving, obeying the speed limit and the basics of observation and communication with other road users. The basics of look/mirror, signal, manoeuvre, drummed into me as a 18 year old learner, and really brought home in motor cycle training (before the current regime), are not followed by many on the roads. You can pass your driving test at 17 and then never have another day's training for the rest of your life. As well as speed awareness courses for those caught speeding, I'd love it if there was compulsory retraining for those of you who no longer meet the minimum standards of the driving test.

[tedfudge]

But they are still a danger to themselves and others regardless of how many people they kill ..

[heartblock]

Love that idea Alice EDG - buses, bikes, taxis, blue badge and residents only. Court and Calton cars. Fixed! Melbourne, Elsie etc. LTNs could go, because EDG no longer a car route and as EDG is a school road the improvement in air quality, faster bus journeys and safer cycling will be great for the school children.

[first mate]

It's the sort of radical and 'fresh' approach that should have the council biting Alice's arm off.

heartblock Wrote:

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> Love that idea Alice EDG - buses, bikes, taxis,

> blue badge and residents only. Court and Calton

> cars. Fixed! Melbourne, Elsie etc. LTNs could go,

> because EDG no longer a car route and as EDG is a

> school road the improvement in air quality, faster

> bus journeys and safer cycling will be great for

> the school children.

[legalalien]

Only problem is what to do about residents in the streets from Hillsborough through to Glengarry as EDG is their only means of ingress/ egress. Might have to make an exception. Gilkes can be solved by opening the entrances onto DV and Calton.

The traffic will go somewhere else though, no doubt... won?t traffic that would have gone up EDG towards LL and onward to Nunhead/ Peckham now have to go up court lane and then left into already busy LL or channel up Eynella/ Barry Road?

Could you put a cycle route along Green Dale/ the back of the school and Tessa Jowell site and into East Dulwich station ? (Looking at this on a map as I don?t know what the topography behind the school is...)

[rupert james]

If you check back on the forum you will still there was a thread about Green Dale and cycle lanes.

There is one already where hundreds of cyclists apparently use it everyday and that was why they closed of Champion Hill to traffic.

Never seen more of a handful using it and you have to be careful if you are walking because some of them think they are on the Herne Hill cycle track.

[Raeburn]

tedfudge Wrote:

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> Motorists do pay to use the roads more than anyone else

It's the complete opposite Ted. People who use the roads the least, subsidise motorists to utilise them.

As a simple example, who paid for the LL/Goose Green roundabout rebuild last month?

[DuncanW]

tedfudge Wrote:

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> But they are still a danger to themselves and

> others regardless of how many people they kill ..

Sure, to some extent you can find danger wherever you look for it. But to what extent with cyclists?

The annual number of fatalaties caused by drivers of motor vehicles is around 1750 with around 400 of those being pedestrians. (I refer back to fatalaties as that is the stat least open to manipulation)

Yet I don't read endless, monotonous diatribes on here (or elsewhere) about irresponsible motor vehicle drivers. Why is that? I would genuinely be interested to know...

[malumbu]

Because as a country we are very pro car. It's gone from a great levelling out in the 50s and 60s when the working classes could first afford a car and hence a revolution in personal mobility to the entitlement of many/most that this is now a right. Successive governments have made the right noises of challenging this, but it's all gone in the wrong direction since the fuel protests of 2000 ("give Blair a bloody nose") with the unholy alliance of hauliers and farmers. That is why duty on motorists and hence general taxation from this source has fallen continually in real terms in the last 20 years.

Can you imagine most motorists agreeing to pay more fuel and excise duty to help reduce the environmental impact of their vehicles??

[alice]

Hey thanks! I'll take 'radical and fresh'. But No-ones listening.

People with power are Obsessed by Parklets