Does anyone else suffer from insane, irrational jealousy?

[gerry]

responded

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

My pennorth worth, as one who has been insanely jealous, is that it is a matter of low self-esteem. Basically you don't think you deserve the person you are with and set out to prove it. I don't think it has anything to do with whether that person is trustworthy or not, it's to do with yourself.

When you accept the truism that all men are bastards and are jolly lucky to be part of your life, you will be on the road to recovery.

BTW, a very good book to work through re CBT is "Feeling Good" by Dr. David D. Burns. It is aimed at depression which is basically about negative, warped thoughts so can be used for other areas too.

[PeckhamRose]

I suffered from jealousy in my teens and 20s because I was so insecure about my looks, and never understood why someone would want to go out with me, so when they did and then they started talking to more beautiful people I would get jealous thinking that why would they do that if they want to spend time with me. Of course what that behaviour did was push them into the direction of other people, and then when they left me I had proven myself right, ie. set myself up to be failed.

All heavy stuff.

But somehow I realised my problems without therapy or CBT or anything, I just realised it was stupid.

Now I have someone who I am so secure about because HE is so secure, that when I got back from a long trip abroad which I was doing alone, he and my best friend went on holiday together with my blessing because I knew he loved me and that she was my best friend and they are mates.

And all was fine. No, seriously. Sort of anti-jealous!

CWALD (btw that is my fave nickname on this site) wrote: "If I didn't really give a sh!t about someone, I wouldn't waste my energy snooping cos I wouldn't care what they were up to."

I write a diary every day, and my man and I feel the opposite. If you absolutely do love someone, you don't need to read the diary, because you know them and love them for what they are.

Altogether now .....

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Thanks that was really helpful - Brendan made me laff tho.

I think realising that I was acting nuts was definately a big step - I was always good at justifying everything.

[Bellenden Belle]

Hi Chav,

Okay here are a few thoughts.

I don't suffer from wild jealousy but have a whole host of other issues - all of which are irrational assumptions (ie the old chestnut that other people don't like me and are judgiing me; or that somehow they are more competent, better than me).

Searching in your past is a good start for understanding why you act the way you do - but sometimes understanding why we are irrational is not enough - it almost justifies why we behave the way we do. So we need some techniques for the here and now.

The first is to develop an awareness of ourselves. A gentle checking in of what is going on inside. This can help the way we talk to ourselves. So I might say to myself "ah, Caroline, there's that nervous feeling again.... mmmm, I'm feeling a little anxious" .... this actually means that I am aware of the actual mechanics of what I'm feeling - the focus shifts from what the other person has allegedly done to actually me taking ownershop and responsibility for my feelings. Then I check out what's going on physically - do my shoulders tense, does my face become rigid, are my fists clenched and ready for a fight. Okay, take a moment. Dismantle. Not everythng - just one small thng - maybe - take those shoulders down a notch. This also has the added benefit of giving you back some control, engaging you in the present.

And from that place - of examining both the emotional and physical aspects of our irrational thoughts; so that before we do a thing we have located where we're at and what is habitual behaviour for us - then you can start examining the situation. Asking yourself if this is based on fact. If there ain't no facts, then actually you are dealing with a "fantasy" - a funny old word, but I think an accurate one. Don't forget you're a lawyer Chav - think about your questioning mind, and your responses to fact versus fantasy in other parts of your life.

And then you might have a conversation with your partner. And instead of making an accusation you could "check out" if what you are feeling has any truth or fact in it - so you might say " You know, I'm just feeling uncomfortable at the moment, and I recognise it as jealousy... I can feel it my stomach... you know, I really felt it last night when you came in late..." And you say this not as a clever way of interrogating your partner but just as a way of communicating where YOU are at at that precise moment. It means you are owning what you are feeling; you aren't dismissing it as necessarilly irrational, but you are recognising that it is something that needs airing. And by owning it you are placing yourself in a position where you aren't making an accusation and neither are you wasting energy fueliing a fantasy , by rifling through people's pockets.

And the one other thing (which we can deal with in our next session!) is the question of what do we get from feeding a fantasy. Seriously - the human mind is fantastic and fascinating, and even when we think we are being are most irrational and destructive we are actually getting something out of it.... what are you gaining by this behaviour Chav?

And in answer to your question - How do we learn to trust? I think we learn to trust ourselves. We learn to listen to ourselves so that our bullshit-radar becomes more finely tuned. So nowadays when I think someone is judging me, I am far more comfortable with questioning whether this is Caroline being irrational, or if I'm actually sensing something real. Sometimes that gut feeling is actually spot on. And sometimes it's a million miles away.

Hope that wasn't too long a ramble - and hope some of it is helpful. x

[SeanMacGabhann]

between Chav's "heart-on-sleeve" admissions and BB's thoughtful response, as well as the various other contributions from people to this thread - I'm reminded of just why I love not only the forum but the people on it

sorry people - came over all unnecessary there...

[????]

Sean...you bleedin' treehugger, pull yourself together

[SeanMacGabhann]

I knew you wouldn't be far behind to inject some cynicism quids... it's so endearing!

[????]

B)

[Keef]

Gerry that's quite am assumption based on what I wrote. Her parents weren't together, but not for the reasons you suggest. She had lots of things going on, and actually went for CBT when it was the new thing, and it has helped her sort things out for herself.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

BB - that was a really helpful post. I wouldn't have thought about looking at the physical stuff and I am a very physical person. Just having thought and talked about it has helped a lot, and my ex-BF also has jealousy issues so we have been boring the crap out of eachother trying to work out what our triggers are and what strategies we can use to deal with stuff.

I love the idea of looking at what the emotional pain feels like physically - it's basiclly an adrenaline response, so as to answer the what do I get out of feeding the fantasy - I was always an adrenaline junkie, so maybe I'm getting some kind of distructive postitive feedback from the adrenaline rush without realising it. I also think that I feel the need to control my world, which includes my partner and I know this is down to having an extremely bullying mother who totally controlled my world as a kid making me feel powerless. So I understand my control freakery and have gone a long way to address a lot of that, but the other stuff hadn't occured to me before.

Group hug people, I'm feeling all loved up!!

[PeckhamRose]

I'm gonna be sick. I wrote my post last night having been working hard all day and was very tired and had then drunk too many G&Ts. Yeuch. I really should not do that. I really should be locked from the laptop until I am sober enough to remember the password to get in.

I wrote that in my diary, too.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

PeckhamRose - what was wrong with it? I thought it was a very helpful contribution myself.

[Bellenden Belle]

Ah Chav, glad you found some useful stuff in my post.

I think the physical stuff is amazing - I've only discovered it through therapists so can't recommend a book - but for me I just find I can go round and round in circles in my head with stuff, whereas if I actually look at my body and what it's doing I can actually start to break the cycle.

And Peckhamrose - I really liked your post. It was thoughtful, sincere, and I really thought you were expressing how it's possible to change and move on... which is a really good thing to share.

I'm loving this thread too .... definitely up for that group hug!

[Moos]

Thanks everyone for this really interesting and considered post.

My two-pennorth - and compared with some of the excellent advice we've already had, that's all I'd pay for it! - is don't underrate the way you feel. Yes, try to recognise when your feelings are irrational or destructive but give yourself a break and say I DO feel angry or jealous or unhappy, and don't get into the cycle of hating yourself for having the negative feelings. Instead try to treat yourself with the kindness and nonjudgemental support that you'd give to a good friend and address the issues behind the feelings.

I hope that's not just gibber.

[Cassius]

My ex left me for a work colleague of his and was out the door like a shot. He decieved and hurt me, however I would never extrapolate his behaviour as being the norm. I have learned to trust again otherwise life wouldn't be worth living. Better to love and lose than to never love at all.....

[Azul]

go on Chav,

you know we all love you here

drag yourself to do a bit of cbt with your brain just like bb told you to, but not too much as we like you a little bit troubled and mental.

or you could just take the shortcut and go for a gender swap

[Bellenden Belle]

Oooooh - Azul my lovely - your post makes me smile lots - BUT I personally wouldn't recommend CBT - not my bag at all - I do have a fantastic therapist though (based in East Dulwich) who works from a humanist viewpoint - which looks at a person as a whole. But I agree Chav - don't change, you're great!

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Haha thanks everyone, especially Azul! And I quite like the fact that I get BB's second hand therapy for free, I always love a bargain.

This has been a very interesting thread and now I'm gona get my arse off to the pub for a bit of liquid therapy!