#indiefeb

[Number 22]

A great idea from Tweatup (over on Twitter) - #indiefeb - Support small independent food businesses this month by not buying any food or drink from chains or branded groups (5 sites or more) - so no Eat, Pret, Pizza Express, Nero, Strada, Youngs, Geronimo, M&B etc for a month. Gets particularly interesting if you want to extend it to groceries - no Tesco, Sainsburys, Waitrose, M&S etc for a month. If you live in Dulwich, Herne Hill, or Brixton this will be easier than it sounds! Follow us on Twitter - @No22Restaurant

[Huguenot]

I often wonder what the people who work in larger manufacturers or retailers have done to us that we want to take away their jobs?

150,000 people work for Sainsbury - how many of them do we want to make redundant before we're satisfied?

I'm not trying to be judgemental here, and I support small business, but I do wonder about these campaigns to target the jobs of people who work for big companies: are these people so much less deserving of a job than a small local retailer?

[Jessie]

and also the chains offer good ? deals - i do like my indies, but i also at the moment am v aware of not having much left- over dosh at the end of the month, and the chains offer deals for those strapped for cash (am thinking supermarkets as opposed to restaurants!). What is M&B by the way?

[Penguin68]

Bit of a problem with this idea - yes certainly do try non-chain suppliers - be prepared to take a chance rather than just relying on 'known' suppliers, but don't support suppliers who are not interested in providing good service or meet customer needs. There is no intrinsic merit in being local or independent.

We are too keen to attack chains - but they have become successful in the main because they have researched their target customers and their needs and have worked hard to meet customer expectations. There are some great, friendly and very good value local and independent suppliers, sure, and we should get to know them and use them, but ONLY if they are properly supplying our needs, which include range and availability.

If you buy from people who don't, really, stock what you want, or understand your needs, then all you are doing is re-inforcing poor and unacceptable supplier behaviour.

I think it is a good idea to try suppliers other than chains, be prepared to take a risk, because that way you can find gems, and a campaign to do this isn't a bad thing - but it happens that a number of the chains listed do a perfectly good job (deliver effectively against customer expectations and provide value for money) and I, for one, will not be punishing them because they are successful in what they purport to do. Or punish the people who work for them.

[Penguin68]

Cross-posted with Jessie & Huguenot - great minds...

[computedshorty]

There is a way to get prices cut, use all those tins and packets that are at the back of the cupboard, they will soon be out of date so by using these now for a week will show on the weekly turnover at the Supermarket,

Then next week you might find a few cuts in price.

[Jeremy]

Eating and drinking out would be pretty doable (unless you work in Canary Wharf).

But would you like to suggest a local non-chain shop where I can buy my shopping at a time that suits me (i.e. weekday evenings)?

[Twirly]

Agree with the above posts. I tend to spread it around between independents and chains.

[Number 22]

I'm not sure that encouraging people to try out independents for a month is going to lead to mass redundancies at Sainsbury's & Nero Huguenot.... but this is an interesting idea for our general area (and I'm spreading this to Herne Hill, Brixton & Peckham) given the current rash of planned new supermarket openings. And yes, independent grocery suppliers did ought to open at more convenient times for their customers - the Fruit Garden in Herne Hill is open until 7pm every evening for instance - more should do the same.

Tweat up's response to the Canary Wharf question was to take a packed lunch & a flask... did make me smile.

[Chillaxed]

What rash of supermarket openings is that, Number 22?

[LondonMix]

I agree with every single word of this post. Everything about it hits the nail on the head.

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bit of a problem with this idea - yes certainly do

> try non-chain suppliers - be prepared to take a

> chance rather than just relying on 'known'

> suppliers, but don't support suppliers who are not

> interested in providing good service or meet

> customer needs. There is no intrinsic merit in

> being local or independent.

>

> We are too keen to attack chains - but they have

> become successful in the main because they have

> researched their target customers and their needs

> and have worked hard to meet customer

> expectations. There are some great, friendly and

> very good value local and independent suppliers,

> sure, and we should get to know them and use them,

> but ONLY if they are properly supplying our needs,

> which include range and availability.

>

> If you buy from people who don't, really, stock

> what you want, or understand your needs, then all

> you are doing is re-inforcing poor and

> unacceptable supplier behaviour.

>

> I think it is a good idea to try suppliers other

> than chains, be prepared to take a risk, because

> that way you can find gems, and a campaign to do

> this isn't a bad thing - but it happens that a

> number of the chains listed do a perfectly good

> job (deliver effectively against customer

> expectations and provide value for money) and I,

> for one, will not be punishing them because they

> are successful in what they purport to do. Or

> punish the people who work for them.

[AcedOut]

I love independents, but they unfortunately don't have economies of scale. We should rejoice in chains for job creation and the amout the pay in tax (at least the majority of the UK run chains).

If anything, we should boycot the chains that are not paying tax in the UK (not mentioning any well named US coffee houses).

[Number 22]

Chillaxed: Sainsburys Effra Road (planned), Tesco Express Herne Hill (coming soon), Tesco Express Brixton Hill (planned), Sainsburys Local Lordship Lane (recentish)...

And yes, I do agree with Penguin 68 - except on the idea that chains and their staff are being "punished" by this campaign. The campaign seems to aim to get people to think a bit more about where their cash is going and encourage diversity... Giving independents a try rather than presuming that they'll be more expensive / worse quality.

[Twirly]

Where is the Sainsbury's Local on Lordship Lane going to be?

[buggie]

Twirly - it already exists, up by the plough, it's been there about 3yrs!

[Jeremy]

Number 22 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> independent grocery suppliers did ought to open at

> more convenient times for their customers - the

> Fruit Garden in Herne Hill is open until 7pm every

> evening for instance - more should do the same.

It would be great if local shops were open a bit later! But even 7pm is borderline for a lot of us.

I think a lot of people in the area take a middle ground - i.e. do a big supermarket shop, but also use local shops when they can - especially if they're after some particularly nice meat/fish/veg, gifts, etc.

[Twirly]

Oh, I thought Number 22 meant a new one was planned as they were talking about new supermarkets opening. 3 years is hardly recent!

[david_carnell]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I often wonder what the people who work in larger

> manufacturers or retailers have done to us that we

> want to take away their jobs?

>

> 150,000 people work for Sainsbury - how many of

> them do we want to make redundant before we're

> satisfied?

>

> I'm not trying to be judgemental here, and I

> support small business, but I do wonder about

> these campaigns to target the jobs of people who

> work for big companies: are these people so much

> less deserving of a job than a small local

> retailer?

Most research shows that when out of town and metro supermarkets open, they actually cause more people to lose their jobs from existing businesses than they employ. So your argument could be re-phrased as:

"Just what how many small businesses do we want to close before we're satisfied?"

[Penguin68]

Most research - citation(s) ??

[Earl Aelfheah]

Sounds like a fairly well intentioned attempt to get people trying different places and encourage some diversity on the high street. Let's hope Tesco's can survive the month though.

[Number 22]

http://brixtonia.com/2013/01/28/lets-not-go-to-tesco-the-supermarket-invasion-of-brixton/

Brixton-centric - but highlights the problem.

[Huguenot]

Really? It seems to me a fairly bald anti-corporate agenda.

I see no reason to elevate small business to some moral high ground, it's just reactionary nostalgia.

If as david_carnell suggests, it takes more people to run the same quality of service from a small business than a large one, that merely says they're less efficient, not better.

Shoppers aren't charities, giving their money away to people to keep them in a job. Money's pretty tight these days.

Sure if you want to sustain choice and diversity, choose small business, but that's not a reason to prevent yourself going to a supermarket.

[LondonMix]

I love and use the indies in ED a lot. But supermarkets offer many people (strapped for time or cash) a real service and its a type of middle class reverse snobbery to sneer at them. My in-laws remember when you HAD to go to the butcher and then the baker etc from their younger days but without any romantic nostalgia. They think its a waste of time and appreciate the wide offering and choice in supermarkets. All businesses can and do go bust if they aren't serving a real demand / need. Encourage people by all means to explore what's on offer at the indies as they might be surprised and find new stores and products they love. But framing it into a 'good' vs 'bad' option shouldn't be the point.

Indies and markets thrive when they offer something that is a fun experience, unusual products or better quality offering of standard items. Making it about 'bad chain stores' is lazy.

[uncleglen]

Why don't they just turn all the little over-priced 'indie' shops into residential property and then maybe there would be enough places for the hordes to live!

[Nigello]

In and around SE22 it is easy to support independents in the shape of restaurants, cafes, hairdressers'/barbers and newsagents. We have few chain restaurants and cafes, so the likes of Homemade, Petitou, the many curry houses are likely to do well in this area, more so than if we had Pizza Express, Nando's etc.