Car clamping

[char1ie]

A statuary declaration doesn't cost a fiver, it is free. You don't have to pay to stand in front of a magistrate to tell the court that you have not received any documentation relating to the offence. I have made three in my life, one of which was last week at Camberwell Green magsitrates.

Charlie

[TJMP]

There?s some helpful general advice on dealing with these issues here:

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/

Details about obtaining a statutory declaration can be found here:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/files/OOTApplicationPack.pdf

These do need to be witnessed by a Court Officer, or a JP or a Commissioner of Oaths (many solicitors perform this role and a small charge of around ?5 is payable, as my colleague Austin Mitchell has indicated).

Whilst it may be possible to do this at the court for free, London PCNs are handled at the Traffic Enforcement Bulk Centre at Northampton County Court so it is unlikely it would prove to be cheaper doing it that way.

This, from the Department for Transport, may also be of interest:

http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=363767&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False

It includes the welcome information that:

"The new parking framework [which started in April] makes it clear that councils should not use parking enforcement as a tool for raising revenue or set targets for the number of tickets issued. Furthermore, councils are strongly advised to only use wheel-clamping against those who persistently evade their penalty charges.

"The framework encourages councils to tackle the parking behaviour that causes most disruption or danger to other road users - such as unauthorised parking in spaces for disabled people, at pedestrian crossings, or on yellow lines. Councils must issue lower penalties for other, less serious, parking offences. Details of how to appeal must be included on parking tickets. Independent parking adjudicators will also get more power, including the right to ask local authorities to reconsider penalty charges where motorists have mitigating circumstances".

Tessa Jowell MP (Office)

[Ratpack]

Thanks so much for everyone's comments. It feels great to have some support.

[tomtubby]

I found this forum after having yet another serious complaint into our office concerning the activities of one particular bailiff company that resulted in the client having his car sold without his knowledge and questions being asked about the contents that were in the vehicle worth over ?5k. In the client's case she never received the original parking ticket from Southwark or any of the subsequent following statutory documents as it would appear that they had all been sent to her previous address.

There is now ongoing action about this case but from reading the questions on this forum it is clear that the public do know know of their rights if this same thing has happened to them.

If you did not receive the original ticket or following documents then there is a very SIMPLE form that the owner can complete that is FREE. This is an Out of Time late Statutory Declaration. Thousands of these are sent to the Traffic Enforcement Officer. The application is FREE but the declaration requires that you have your signature witnessed. This can be done in the County Court which is free or in front of a solicitor with a fee of around ?5.

If anyone has already paid a bailiff or worse...had a car clamped, removed or even sold and that person had never received the parking ticket then the above application MUST be done. If succesful, this will revoke the warrant allowing you to claim a refund from the local authority/bailiff for the fees and charges previously paid or for a car that has ben sold.

Any questions, please ask. There is further info here:

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

[LibraCarr]

Hi,

I too have had problems with JBL.(Drakes are another bad company) On ringing the office hotline I was asked for my name, I said sorry can I have your name first, the person refused to give it.

I had a parking ticket that within three weeks of issue had gone from ?60 to ?745.00! The bailiffs were instructed and attended the day before the appeal!

I have somewhere the private addresses of the directors (available freely via companies house) I can assure you that they do not like you waiting for them when they get home!

The director/owner/scumbag also co presents 'Beat the Bailiffs' on BBC TV I requested an interview with the BBC retained presenter but was told she was not available for interviews.

If there is a sufficient amount of complaintants you could form a group and attend the addresses with perhaps ITV, it would be interesting and may make them re-think their way's.

Regards,

Libra Carr.

ps I was a Certificated Bailiff, but never prayed on the inocent. I always managed to obtain my fee as 99 times out of a 100 the council was wrong, strangely, I never seemed to be in constant employment.

[tomtubby]

If you had an appeal in process then the bailiff is prohibited from enforcing under the civil procedure rules !! If this information by you is correct, then you should not have been charged any fees for this visit. In addition, you need to apply for a copy of the screen shot of your account. You are legally entitled to this. This will provide you with a breakdown of the fees. Finally, did you check whether the individual was certificated. If you want to know please send me a message.

[jamiedodger]

Here's a recent court case in Middlesborough where a pensioner took drakes (now marstons to court) over excessive fees. Its a simple process to do and their cost structure cannot be justfied

Enjoy

This complaint was made to Middlesborough County Court in February 2008 by a disabled lady, who is confined to a wheelchair.

Following this heairng the bailiff's certificate was revoked and compensation awarded to the lady from the bailiff's bond.

A parking ticket had been incurred and a bailiff from Drakes Group ( now Marston Group) had visited her home early in the morning and clamped her car BEFORE knocking at the door. The car was clearly displaying a disabled blue badge and the warrant in the possession of the bailiff was in the name of Motability Finance. It was therefore clear to the bailiff that the vehicle in question was a disabled vehicle. The bailiff charged her ?553.36 before releasing the clamp.

The bailiff also maintained that he had visited the house the previous afternoon which was denied by this lady as the family run a business from their premises with approx 8 staff. Drakes Group, in attempting to prove that a previous visit had taken place provided satellite navigation print outs which the court dismissed as they only proved the bailiff had been in the vicinity....not at the house.

At the hearing, the Judge was critical of the bailiff, but in particular was most critical of the company; Drakes Group Ltd for the following:

RE: THE CAR BEING CLAMPED BEFORE KNOCKING AT THE DOOR.

"There appears to have been absolutely no reason to do that except to bump up Drakes' fees.....which had already been bumped up, it seemed to me, by a heavily unjustified charge the day before".

RE: THE ALLEGED VISIT THE PREVIOUS DAY.

"I regard it as significant that there is no copy of the letter left (the previous day). I am told that this is a system of Drakes, but Mr X is the only person who can carry the can for an unsatisfactory system."

RE: THE CHARGES OF ?553.36

"Looking at that document ( breakdown of fees) which contains five figures, there is a maximum of one which is accurate , all the others are excessive". He also said that "it seems to me that Mr X is trained to seek excessive amounts by is employers". The Judge confirmed that the "correct figure would probably have been something under ?200 made up of the original ?95 (PCN), letter and two visits if one took a favourable view about the first visit, certainly not ?553.36"

RE: SUMMING UP, THE JUDGE SAID THE FOLLOWING:

"All in all, this is a disgraceful performance, which I find particularly disturbing since it seems to be in accordance with the policy of the employers Drakes Group Ltd. I find it a matter of considerable regret that there is no body which governs the company rather that the individual bailiff. If there had been, it seems to me that Drakes Group ought to be taken before it and deprived of any licence it had".

"It seems to me that it is perfectly clear that firms of this sort ought to be licenced and ought to operate under a statutory code of conduct rather than regarding themselves as......having a licence to rip off debtors".

[mona]

greetings

i found your quite helpful comment on this forum after being forced this morning to pay 650? for a parking ticket that i have never received in the first place.

interestingly enough it is the same borough (southwark) and the same bailiffs (JBL)

apparantly they send me 5 notifications (after the ticket) itself through the post (of which i have not received a single one). it was also interesting to find out, that none of these recorded deliveries would have needed to be signed by me, but could actually be handed over just randomly to who ever would be willing to take them, that in itself is a scandal, if they are basing their evidence on such an unreliable delivery system....

i am living in this address now for the last 8 years and yes it has happened that a few letters had been misplaced within these 8 years, but we are talking 6 documents over the course of the last 9 months.

i feel i am dealing with a corrupt system and i could do with some well informed advice to actually claim my money back.

it would be great to hear from you.

i will post this comment also publicly hoping someone will respond. any advice is greatly appreciated

thank you very much

[Ratpack]

Hi,

I still don't have my money back but I'm still fighting for it.

The first thing you need to do is to file what is called an out of time statutory declaration to the traffic enforcement centre at Northampton. It sounds complicated but it's not. You need to fill in a form that you find on the internet. You have to have somebody witness it. I got a solicitor to do it and it cost ?5 but you can get it done at any County Court. This then needs to be posted or faxed to the Northampton TEC. Basically you are saying legally that you never received a parking ticket and the traffic enforcement centre decides whether to force the council to go back to the original ticket.

2): Write to the council and find out what the ticket was for and ask them to send you true copies of everything they have sent out to your address (supposedly). Write to the head of parking [email protected] and cc in [email protected]

3): I assume it was a bailiff company that came round and forced you to pay the cash. That's what happened to me. Write to them and ask them for exact details of everything they sent you and to which address. Ask also for screen grabs of their account that they have on you. They have to disclose this information. From this I discovered that they knew that I didn't live at my old address as they had received a phone call from the new resident informing them.

4): Contact Sheila Harding from bailiffadviceonline.com. She is really helpful and has numerous cases, mainly against Southwark, that she is working on. She is part of the House of Lords Law Reform Group or something like that. Her email is [email protected]

5) Write to Tessa Jowell, our MP. [email protected]. She started off helping me. I think this is a huge issue in this area.

It's going to be a difficult fight. It's taken me three months of constant fighting and I still haven't got my cash back. I'm waiting to hear from the Northampton centre but I'm taking this all the way so stay in touch and let me know how it goes with you.

[mona]

wow ....that's a lot of info.....thank you soo much for the information ratpack...i have written to tessa yesterday already as i find her through this posting...

yeah definetely.....let's keep exchanging footnotes..i really appreciate your support

[LibraCarr]

Hi,

I had the same problem (as reported on this site). I have the addresses of all the directors of the company and will look for them if required. You may also wish to note that the director of the company appears as a co-presenter of the BBC programme 'Beat the Bailiff!'

There is a person that hates Wardens and Bailiffs and will help you to get your money back. It costs a small fee but works. I do not know the website, but I would Google which I did.

Good Luck.

Libra Carr.

[Lemon1]

I am actually in shock at how many cases of this have happened and how similar it all sounds to what happened to myself and my husband a few weeks ago!

We were on our honeymoon a few weeks ago when the Baliffs came and took our car away, they also claimed that we had a parking ticket which once we called the council to check seemed to also be through a CCTV camera, we have receieved absolutely nothing in the post and the baliffs had already had our car for 5 days by the time we got back from holiday thinking it was stolen. Once we spoke to the Baliffs they said it would be sold the next day at auction unless we came up with nearly a grand in fees.

Luckily my husband found a form online that meant we could appeal to the court and stop the baliffs but it was very tight and we still don't have our car back or any news on whether we will have to pay this or not.

I just can't believe they get away with this stuff

[Ratpack]

Email the people from the council and Tessa Jowell and the woman from bailiffadviceonline.com as everyone needs to know about how many people this is happening to.

This is complicated but the out of time statutory declaration gets sent to the traffic enforcement centre. The council can reject or accept it. If they accept it you get all your money refunded but they can reject it. The problem is sometimes the bailiff companies also do the legal work for the council as part of their contract so they will reject the declaration you made to the TEC as it's not in the interests of the bailiff's firm to refund you your money.

In my case Southwark are working hand in hand with the bailiffs. Yet when the bailiffs have done things that clearly breach government legislation and council ombudsman guidlines, the council claim it is nothing to do with them and only the council has to follow these guidlines - not the bailiffs. Therefore they can pretty much get away with whatever they want.

You will probably get the form rejected by the council. Don't expect to hear anything for MONTHS. It's a really dodgy situation and I can't believe they are getting away with it.

[mona]

greetings everyone........i just wanted to circulate some good news to encourage all the rest of you......i got all my money back, every single penny ....yipppiiiieeeeehh and i guess even though it was taking 8 months altogether, i went relatively smoothly because of me not panicking or acting in anger....seriously i think that made a HUGE difference.......i didn't waste much time feeling victimised and powerless, but instead ACCEPTED THE SITUATION, researched the facts, got support (thanks a lot for all your information here!!!!) and then just went to work........

the steps were as follows:

o. i got in touch with Sheila Harding from bailiffadviceonline.com...she was of great help, and i paid only 20? for all the useful advice and actual support she provided me with.......

1. i got the out of time statuary declaration which

2. i sent off to the Northampton TEC per recorded delivery

3. after a few months i received a document from them basically stating that everything would be revoked....

4. then i didn't hear anything for ages from the southwark council to which the document of the Northampton TEC had been sent off....when i phoned them at southwark, they said yeah the received the document and yeah probably i would get it, but only the councils' part of the ?650, which was only ?150, the rest is part of the bailiffs responsibility....i must say that at that point i actually got a bit pissed off, but reminded myself relatively quickly to JUST ACCEPT, and not waste anymore time shooting with bombs on little pidgeons, so i

5. booked an appointment with Hackney Community Law Centre (got their address from a local citizen advice bureau) and they helped me to draft 2 letters (one to the bailiffs and the other to southwark),

6. first i sent off only one, the one to southwark, demanding the whole amount ...after 2 months i finally received the first cheque over ?150, in which they declared that i will have to get the rest from the bailiffs, which was actually fairly easy

with all the other documents backing me the bailif company was very compliant and refunded me instantly............

i wish you all good luck and remember that everything ultimately comes as a blessing, i learned a lot from that about myself, how to manifest things (despite having everyone telling me that i will never ever get that money back!!!!) and also that we can make a total difference if we only concentrate on solutions and WHAT WE ACTUALLY DO WANT AND CAN DO........

[PeckhamRose]

yayayyyy well done!

Just shows, patience and WHINGING AT THE RIGHT PEOPLE!

[Mikecg]

Well done mona, the place where I live has a private security firm that uses thugs to clamp and release your car, I've been done twice for whatever reason, coming home from nightshift and forgetting to stick my permit to the windscreen. those bastards robbed me twice, and I was parked in my own bay, and I paid it, and put up with it..........

So it's good to see you got your money back.>:D<

When I got clamped I was saying I'm gonna knock him out when he gets here, He was a built like a brick sh!thouse, so I paid him the money and went inside and cuddled a bottle of JD for the rest of the evening.

[giggirl]

Mona - well done for your victory. You deserve everything you've won back. I admire you - I wouldn't have had the patience to fight for so long.

[Ratpack]

Well done. I'm still going through the same process to get my cash back. I have been given the money back from the council but can't get the cash off the bailiffs (JBW Enforcements). I'm having to take them to the small claims courts. Well done Mona. I think you have probably played it better than me. I didn't go to a legal centre - I wrote the letters myself, which probably didn't help. Boo hoo. I'll probably never get my money back.

[alethea]

Actually Alethea's husband. I rarely post, but this is just mental! I cannot believe my eyes at this stuff!!!

I cannot believe that in a society where you are supposedly innocent until proven guilty, these hoodlums can get away with this. It is unconscionable, immoral, nasty and bullying of the nastiest kind. Innocent or guilty, these tactics are at best dishonest and at worst Orwellian. Good grief, it is just a disgrace.

I'm really and truly shocked. No right thinking decent person could condone anything about these episodes, far less the exorbitant amounts of money being talked about for the fines. Threatening to sell your car from under you is basically a car ringing operation dressed up as a public enterprise. This is legal TWOCing is it not?

Sympathy to all of you. Especially the person who was picking up their newborn. This disgusts me completely, a very worrying misuse of our surrendering of personal privacy.

Serious kudos to those who pursued and good luck to those who are pursuing.

I know I'm going on a bit, but this is just unbelievable stuff.

[Ratpack]

I won my cash back from the bailiffs - every penny. Yee ha. It's taken a year but it was worth it.

[louisiana]

Well done, Ratpack.

Courage, persistence....and success!

JBW are a bunch of criminals.

Give yourself a huge pat on the back.

:)-D

[johnhinton]

Congratulations on your perseverance and just rewards. Thanks also for letting us know how you got on and thanks to everyone else for their helpful advice (hope I never have to make use of it).

john

[Sue]

Hey that's really good news Ratpack!

:)-D

[reginaldo]

I walked out to my car early one morning last week to find a clamp on the back wheel and a notice on the window from the bailiff. Confusing and worrying, given I haven't had a parking ticket for about 3 years and have never had a speeding ticket.

Turns out that the bailiffs had been told to clamp a car belonging to someone else further down my road. Same make of car, but a different colour, a different model and a different year. They couldn't find his, so they basically clamped the closest they could find to the one they were after.

Luckily the bailiff saw me looking confused and said he had just spoken to the owner they were after. He was friendly enough and removed the clamp from my car.

But.... what if the guilty party wasn't at home and the bailiffs hadn't spoken to him? What if I'd left my flat ten minutes later after he had gone?

It just shows what kind of &*%$wits these people are.

[flipbrit]

Be carfeful on TFl, they went to my flat once claiming congestion charge 1 year ago,

kicked on my door for an hour too, they're f*^%&*ng B%$!*ds