Gross women

[Loz]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> So why do women need to put on make-up at all

> then? Wherever it is?

Old joke:

Q: Why do women wear make-up and perfume?

A: Because they are ugly and they smell.

[DJKillaQueen]

No it's not.....You have no way of knowing if the person applying makeup is a voluntary worker for example.....so I stand by my view that labelling people you know nothing about as selfish because they apply a bit of makeup on a train is a disproportionate reaction to have...and would always question the intelligence and ability to reason of someone having such a reaction.

I think people do still recognise good manners when they see them and plenty of people do still have good manners, especially in other parts of the country. London is a bubble that doesn't reflect UK society as a whole in my experience.

You are bemoaning some mythical golden period that didn't exist and as with any slightly eccentric view are citing examples of behaviour as reinforcement to that argument, which most people don't give a second thought to.

[Louisa]

DJKQ, on occasion my views may well be considered controversial by some, but if you look back they're all done for the good of the community. Lets go back four years to my daffodil picking campaign on Goose Green. For selfish reasons, mothers were encouraging toddlers to pick the beautiful flowers put out for everyone's enjoyment. Lots of people attacked me for being a miserable old bat, but I thought my reasons were clear cut and done for the good of the whole community and not just a few, dare I say it, selfish people.

Louisa.

[Louisa]

That is why such activity should be banned. Then we wouldn't have to question individual reasons. What is it in today's society with people wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt all the time? It's such a nonsensical justification for bad or ill mannered behaviour. And why is my view considered eccentric and people like yourself consider yours not to be? It's a way of gratifying your own views and bemoaning someone who doesn't agree with you. Ignorant people have existed down the generations and I'm not refering back to any "golden age", I'm simply suggesting technology and other factors such as liberalising selfish behaviour have changed the boundaries and reflect badly upon society.

Louisa.

[DJKillaQueen]

Picking daffodils in a public park is different though. There's a logic to descouraging that of course whereby something that is there for all to enjoy won't be there for long if everyone picks one or two.

My reference to controversial views are your views on migrants for example, which were rightly shot down.

A woman applying makup though, hasn't taken anything from you or anyone. And if you want to go down the line of argument that critises her for taken a few minutes to do something for herself, then I can think of lots of activities that people do to please themselves, none of which impact on me, my day, or my life whatsoever. I can perfectly understand the disturbance noise causes, or smell causes, but the silent, odour free act of putting on makeup?.....c'mon!

[DJKillaQueen]

But Louisa...scoiety and boundaries have always changed. Your generation was a change to that before it. That's life. And if things didn't change we'd still have state sanctioned racism, prejudice, sexism and homophobia as the norm. Go back sixty years, and women and the poor didn't go to University. Homosexuality was still illegal. Landlords could prejudice against 'blacks, Irish, dogs'. And I can go on.......there's much I can point out that demonstrates that most change has been for the better, even just over the last 50 years.

[Louisa]

My views on migrants? Pray do tell, I can't remember any such posts. I'm sure I was right though, whatever it was about. And makeup application isn't always an odour free activity, and it certainly can become messy if its done in haste. Why not pop into the loo at work and do it in a private environment? Just a thought.

Louisa.

[Louisa]

Change can be for the good of and to the detriment of society. The decline in institutional racism, homophobia, and greater equality for women are all examples of how society has become better now. But there are plenty of examples, such as manners and liberalisation of rudeness and public acceptance of distasteful language - especially in the media and on television, where things have gradually declined.

Louisa.

[steveo]

'Racism, homophobia, equality for women are all examples of how society has become better now.'

You might want to rephrase that

[Louisa]

Thanks steveo for pointing that out.

Louisa.

[DJKillaQueen]

Rudeness only happens because people put up with it. And there have far worse periods. Victorian London being one for example. I can't imagine all those people living in abject poverty and working in terrible conditions having much time for good manners and cheer.

I will agree that the boundaries have changed regarding media, and that is a censorship issue. But what I don't accept is that the media in itself makes society more violent, ill mannered, etc. It's that old chestnut of life immitating art or art immitiating life. What we do have through global media is reporting of every little thing that anyone has a view about, and that in turn creates the perception that there is more wrong in the world when actually, human nature is the same as it has always been, we just have different ways of managing it.

Parenting has far more to do with how young people turn out than anything else.

Given the choice, I would rather have a permissive society than a repressive one, because the harm done to individuals in a repressive society far outweighs the negatives of a permissive society imo.

[civilservant]

Voyageur Wrote:

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> Offensive on public transport?

> - Loud, tinny music from headphones

> - Mobiles with shockingly loud ring tones (turn the frigging volume down you a**holes)

> - people bellowing on phones, especially when discussing excruciatingly boring business matters

> - women clearing gunk from underneath their hideous acrylic nails and dropping it on the floor

> - farting/sneezing without covering nose/eating smelly food/filthy feet on seats.

yes, yes, and yes

makeup - certainly not

btw, am I the only one to wonder about the personal hygiene of people with long nails, especially when the nails are long enough to begin to curl a bit?

[WorkingMummy]

I think the link between applying make up on the bus - I cannot believe I am writing this - and being rude, or not picking up litter, or not opening doors for people who need help with that, etc, is non existent.

Unless you believe it really is possible to judge a person's morals by their habits a la toilette.

????

It is people who are in the habit of thinking that, just because you are on the bus, everyone else within your field of vision should give excessive attention to your sensitivities over, at worst, harmless activity from which you are free and able simply to look away...

who....

are.....

selfish.

[WorkingMummy]

PS And in deference to StraferJack - and because I only brought up breast feeding to illustrate how silly you are being, Louisa, not to high jack the thread - I'm not going to spend long on the ridiculous notion that society is worse off now more women are confident enough to breast feed in public. (Or the notion that such women are forcing others to "partake" of their boobs.)

[seemster]

"I think the link between applying make up on the bus - I cannot believe I am writing this - and being rude, or not picking up litter, or not opening doors for people who need help with that, etc, is non existent"

I totally agree working mummy. I was on the bus on the way out earlier and I checked/fixed my make up (only lipstick, but still hoping the OP and Louisa et al weren't watching) Then on the way home I said bless you to the driver when he sneezed. So which of Louisa's black and white opinions do I fall in to? One act makes me bad, one makes me good?

A enjoyable thread nonetheless; we wouldn't have had this debate if the OP had posted in the "tiny things that cause irrational rage" thread would we!

[WorkingMummy]

Semester, I was just thinking the exact same thing. Move the OP to the "irrational rage" thread and I'd actually sympathise with it. Not that applying make up bugs me personally at all - just that we all have things we know shouldn't get to us but we can't help it.

But constructing a whole world view around irrational anger is, as DHKQ says, odd.

[Louisa]

WorkingMummy - you seem to have an obsession with breast feeding on public transport. I'm confused of the relevance/tenuous at best link this has to ignorant amateur makeup artists forcing their lipgloss and eyeliner onto the rest of us. I have no interest in breast feeding, but because you raise it on most posts on this thread we have to keep going back to it!

seemster - saying bless you to the driver isn't a necessary act and does not fall into the category of politeness. The driver may not even be religious! And there's a difference between applying a quick touch up of lipstick and taking on a full bag of makeup and basically having a full face makeover in a public space shared by others. I've witnessed some people - and this applies to men as much as women - applying all sorts of face products including dare I say it moisturiser. It's not fair and it could even cause allergic reactions for someone around you who may have skin conditions.

[seemster]

Louisa, are you having a laugh? HOW can moisturiser be offensive?! What a giggle!! Perfume I'll give you, definitely, but moisturiser?! And btw, bless you is just a turn of phrase (when I say it anyway) - I am far from religious myself.

[Louisa]

WorkingMummy how have I constructed a world view around applying makeup? I was simply saying there are certain small things which can in general summarise the lack of morality and selfishness within our society. And as I keep saying, the fact you all fail to see this is just astonishing!

Louisa.

[DJKillaQueen]

OK this just gets more bizarre.....even the application of moisturiser is anti-social behaviour now!

Louisa it's not just workingmummy...any intelligent person can see how ridiculous your illustration of your point is.

[Louisa]

DJKQ of course moisturiser is offensive! It lets of a striking perfume and could contain all sorts of chemicals which potentially could cause a violent allergic reaction in some people, all because some selfish person wishes to have a quick rehydration on the bus rather than doing it after getting out of the shower in the morning. This isn't irrational thought - this sort of thing is happening on a daily basis on public transport across London and its time it stopped. My illustration of my point is quite clear, antisocial and irreverent behaviour takes many forms, and you can't discriminate one type of selfish behaviour from another. Each thing is relevant on a different level to each individual.

Louisa.

[WorkingMummy]

Riiiiight, ok.

(Moving to a different part of the bus myself now.)

[Louisa]

Don't worry WorkingMummy I drive so my rules do not apply on buses, fortunately for all the self absorbed people out there.

Louisa.

[seemster]

"My rules" but it's everyone else who's "self absorbed"

Priceless.

[DJKillaQueen]

You ARE being ridiculous Louisa, and obviously have never suffered with eczma.

People are allergic to all sorts of things but don't expect the rest of the world to be mindful to that. I have cats. Some people are allergic to cats. Just one cat hair on my clothes can set that allergy off but no person with that allergy would ever suggest I never ride a bus in case I have a cat hair on my clothes. Now do you see why your present argument is ridiculous?