Dangerous Drivers

[DaveR]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/motorists-and-cyclists-united-against-pedestrians-2013052269600

[JohnL]

It'll detect you and turn itself off - hopefully using video and audio cues.

Seriously - cars of the future should have multiple environmental sensors.

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Am I the only person that hopes they make electric

> cars noiser as a safety measure. I am a morning

> runner and with all the cars parked on the road, I

> have to use both visual and audio cues a lot to

> navigate crossings. Electic cars can feel like

> they are coming out of nowhere around a blind

> curb. Nothing to do with the drivers but the lack

> of sound as a cue throws me.

[ianr]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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> Can't remember any near misses with motorbikes actually, but have had hundreds from badly driven

> cars, vans, buses and lorries and have been hit about a dozen times.

>

> Pedestrians walking out into the road are pretty scary if there is a lot of traffic, because I

> could get knocked under a vehicle. If there are no cars then we are both likely to get hurt. My

> reactions are pretty good though and I cycle ultra defensively, so I can usually judge when someone

> is about to wander into the road without looking.

Getting hit a dozen times is a very large number, even for someone doing decades of commuting in London, and particularly if riding defensively.

What were the circumstances of the the last two or three instances?

[El Pibe]

?Also what?s the deal with pedestrian crossings? I never stop at them because they?re stupidly at a right angle to the traffic flow, it?s so illogical.?

this.

[LadyDeliah]

ianr Wrote:

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> LadyDeliah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Can't remember any near misses with motorbikes

> actually, but have had hundreds from badly driven

> > cars, vans, buses and lorries and have been hit

> about a dozen times.

> >

> > Pedestrians walking out into the road are pretty

> scary if there is a lot of traffic, because I

> > could get knocked under a vehicle. If there are

> no cars then we are both likely to get hurt. My

> > reactions are pretty good though and I cycle

> ultra defensively, so I can usually judge when

> someone

> > is about to wander into the road without

> looking.

>

> Getting hit a dozen times is a very large number,

> even for someone doing decades of commuting in

> London, and particularly if riding defensively.

>

> What were the circumstances of the the last two or

> three instances?

Half of that would be car doors being opening in my path which can really hurt because you tend to be thrown over your handlebars and hit the road in front.

I've had a bus hit my front wheel when cutting in after having overtaken me, I've had a woman in a car turn right into a side road across my path throwing me sideways and my bike flying over her bonnet.

I've had a taxi overtake me so closely he actually hit my leg and made fall off my bike and hit the pavement. Another bus did almost the same thing, but caught me with its back end when it was trying to squeeze past me at a bit where the road narrowed and had an island in the middle.

I can?t remember any more right now, but I vaguely remember being shunted from the back by a dozy car driver who wasn't paying attention.

I've had a pedestrian walk out in front of a bus when I was overtaking it, and I flew sideways so hard I dented the side of a taxi with my head.

The worst injury I had was from the car driver who turned across the road. I badly sprained my shoulder and knee, plus had a few nasty grazes.

The concussion from hitting my head on the taxi wasn't particularly nice either.

I have cycled in London, all over London since I came here in 1985. Back then cyclists were a rarity and as such I think more vulnerable. I can?t remember all of the incidents that happened back then, but there were many as it was more dangerous than it is today.

I can definitely see progress in the number of motorists who are driving without consideration for cyclists, but there is a long way to go before it could be said to be safe for cyclists in London.

In relation to the difference between cycling in London and other areas of the country, it is definitely worse when you cycle on country roads because the speed of the vehicles, narrowness of the roads and height of the verges.

[mynamehere]

wow and yeah lady D

I've had all the same

maybe not quite so dramatically

[natty01295]

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more;

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[natty01295]

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[natty01295]

http://www.halfords.com for Reflective / high vis - jackets

[Louisa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22636230

Just found this on the BBC news website.

Louisa.

[binary_star]

[binary_star]

- This is exactly where those helpful bike lanes position cyclists...remember, keep left!

- Silly cyclist is so invisible he causes two collisions!

- Cyclist almost injures driver in head-on-collision. Luckily driver walks away unscathed. Phew!

- Another dumb cyclist almost gets themselves killed by a left turning truck.

- More cyclists not paying attention to a left turning HGV...tut tut!

[LadyDeliah]

Bloody hell that 3rd one looks really bad. I have so many near misses with cars going straight into the roundabout when I'm already on it. It's a serious problem, lots of them don't want to give way to a cyclist, or maybe they just don't see us because they aren't looking for bikes.

[binary_star]

http://youtu.be/tKaO9f8kaOc

Whb this happens it's scary. Happened to me once when there were railings on the left. Still the scariest moment I've had as a cyclist. And I've been run over. A couple of times.

[binary_star]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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> Bloody hell that 3rd one looks really bad. I have

> so many near misses with cars going straight into

> the roundabout when I'm already on it. It's a

> serious problem, lots of them don't want to give

> way to a cyclist, or maybe they just don't see us

> because they aren't looking for bikes.

If you make eye contact they usually give way. Usually. But I'm sure you know that. It's the ones who actively avoid eye contact that you know are gonna pull out for sure.

[LadyDeliah]

Yes, I make a habit of trying to get eye contact with drivers anyway, to check if they've seen me. Some of them can be looking right at you but don't seem to see you though :-(

[camberlou]

Just heard on the news that the AA and BSM have announced they will include cycle awareness and safety in their driving lessons.

Better awareness of all road users, especeally cyclists and pedestrians seems like a good thing to me.

[LadyDeliah]

That sounds like a really good idea.

[Loz]

binary_star Wrote:

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> Ok look it's really a very simple question...what is it about cyclists that we need to "worry

> about". What is it that makes them so much more "dangerous". Because as a matter of FACT, rather

> than opinion, it looks like motorists are far more dangerous than cyclists. Except perhaps to

> themselves. Lucky for them they have a ton of metal, airbags and all those other forms of

> protection a car provides.

>

> Prove this wrong. I've asked anyone who asserts any different to pick any parameter for danger

> they like, then choose any study, any data set, from any date range. And demonstrate that cyclists

> are more dangerous than drivers.

I've been staying out of this thread because LadyDelilah has been doing my job splendidly for me (well, and I've been away), but I can't resist this challenge. And I'll even use your own figures from an earlier post, binary_star.

In 2007, 6 pedestrians died as a result of colliding with a cycle. 275 died by being hit by a car/van. And 17 people died falling off a cliff. Historically, more people have died from falling off cliffs than being hit by cyclists...it's that dangerous!

What this fails to take into account is the difference between the number of miles travelled by cars/vans/cycles. If you don't take this into account you get bizarre conclusions like the Ford Focus is thousands of times more dangerous than a Hummer, or even drunk drivers are safer than sober drivers.

I can't find the 2007 figures to match year to year, but I have found the 2010 figures I needed in Chapter 2 here. But, as cycling is getting more popular, that probably helps the cyclists case. Essentially, car and light van traffic made up 285.6 billion miles travelled and cycles made up 3.1 billion miles that year. Simple maths show that on a per mile travelled basis, cyclists are roughly twice as deadly (2.98:6 actually) to pedestrians than cars and vans.

Ah, I hear you say: but a lot of car/van mileage is on motorways, etc, where the chances of hitting a pedestrian is pretty small. Well, about 20% of traffic is motorway traffic, so even if you knock that off the car/van figures, you still have car/van pedestrian deaths at 3.73 for every 6 cycle caused deaths.

So, at the moment, cyclist are only 'less of a danger' to pedestrians because, like Hummers, there are less of them and they don't get used as much. But actually, by standardising on a per mile travelled basis, cycles are relatively more deadly to pedestrians than cars/vans.

Taa daa!

[LadyDeliah]

Any chance you can compare all deaths caused by cycle v motorised vehicle per mile?

[DJKillaQueen]

I was going to do the same analysis Loz but couldn't be bothered finding the figures and doing the maths. Glad to see you weren't as lazy as me, and it definitely provides food for thought.

And there are as many videos on youtube of cylcists doing stupid things as there are drivers causing accidents.

[*Bob*]

Any chance you could compare the distance an earthworm moves over a six minute period with a leg of lamb?

[LadyDeliah]

Hoho *Bob*, such a side splitting comedian, how do you manage it?

[binary_star]

.

[LadyDeliah]

Loz, the thing about the pedestrian deaths by cyclists might have something to do with the fact cyclists are generally located closer to where pedestrians walk and they are silent so a pedestrian is more likely to walk out in front of one. I think you'd need to look at who was the one at fault to gain any useful information on the relative dangers of cyclists v motorists.

I have also read that it was about 5 deaths by cycle in a few years. Sonething like one every two years or something like that, so I'm not sure your stats are correct, but can't be arsed searching for my source right now.

I think it is important though, not just to include pedestrian deaths anyway in a calculation of relative danger, even if we want absolute figures, not figures based on fault. Do you have total deaths for cyclists v motorists, or deaths where either the cyclist or motorist was at fault?