Increase in Lime Bikes on LL

[Rockets]

Can anyone determine what is going on here because that report from late last year says (or has this been superseded by something else) - Lime is considered dockless e-bike provider is it not?:

 

We seem to have a trial of e-scooters but e-bikes being trialed by council agreement operator by operator but then a statement that there are no agreements with any dockless providers.

 

Is this a diversionary tactic from the council and the providers - kit-fly a trial on e-scooters whilst rolling out e-bikes with no proper mechanism?

 

All very confusing...

 

2.  The proposal to trial e-bikes in the borough until 31^st May 2024 through entering a memorandum of understanding with each operator of e-bikes be approved by the Cabinet Member for Leisure, Parks, Streets and Clean Air.

 

E-bikes

11. There are currently no arrangements or agreements with any dockless ebike operator to place bikes, multiple units of bikes or create hire ‘stations’ in Southwark.

12. Other boroughs have signed up to trial schemes with e-bike operators and as such, we agreed that individual units may be off-hired and re-hired in the borough effectively making Southwark a ‘ride through’ borough.

13. There is very high demand for e-bike hire across the borough with usage rates many times higher than e-scooter usage.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Rockets

[David Peckham]

My take on it is that the decision made on the 31/10 allowed them to start talking to potential suppliers from 8/11. At that time there were no agreements in place. They've clearly made arrangements with Lime, and Human Forest, since then.

I haven't read the PDF, so there may be more detail in there.

They've been a bit of a nuisance around SE15 for a month or so, as have Human Forest. I suspect Lime are rolling them out on a postcode or inner/outer Southwark basis. It seems reasonable target the younger, more densely populated areas first.

It does feel like a bit of a land grab on Lime's part, but they're a tech company based in San Francisco. As a strategy, it's pretty much par for the course for them.

 

[claresy]

I love the Lime bikes and think it's a really positive thing - good for the environment, good for health and really convenient. I'm pleased there are more as it can still be difficult to find one, so I'm clearly not alone in finding them useful. I'm a resident and see no problem with them at all. I know lots of people who find them a godsend and haven't heard anyone complain except for on here.   Part of the joy is that they can be picked and dropped off anywhere. I find it surprising that people find fault with something so inoffensive and progressive.

[alice]

I understand the convenience but they are far to heavy and expensive for everyday use 

[malumbu]

Nice one Claresy.  Good to hear someone being positive for a change on this forum.  Booooo Alice, just because you don't like them.

[Nigello]

It’s not progressive and is definitely offensive to leave large and heavy objects in the middle of footpaths.

[Earl Aelfheah]

57 minutes ago, claresy said:

I love the Lime bikes and think it's a really positive thing - good for the environment, good for health and really convenient. I'm pleased there are more as it can still be difficult to find one, so I'm clearly not alone in finding them useful. I'm a resident and see no problem with them at all. I know lots of people who find them a godsend and haven't heard anyone complain except for on here.   Part of the joy is that they can be picked and dropped off anywhere. I find it surprising that people find fault with something so inoffensive and progressive.

I agree. They're great. You can get to Brixton tube in 10-15 minutes without braking a sweat.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Earl Aelfheah

[claresy]

I don't use them regularly but I know someone who commutes daily on one because it's cheaper than a train. When I do use one I don't find it heavy at all - it's electric so no effort required! It's progressive in terms of being non-polluting, better for the environment and accessible for people who may not want or be able to afford a car - or prefer not to be stuck in a motionless bus indefinitely. Since they closed many roads locally public transport and driving take far longer. On one occasion it took me half an hour to get to Camberwell! 

[claresy]

Also - alien concept I know - they're FUN! And great for young people who can't/don't want to drive. 

[first mate]

Yes, but not very accessible if blocking pavements or lying in the road. 
 

I agree, it is great that young people, especially have a convenient, fun and cheap form of transport but we do need to address current issues with these bikes and find a solution and not create problems for other sections of the community.

[Rockets]

Of course they are great for those who enjoy using them but an inconvenience and eye-sore when they are left strewn all over the streets. And be careful when you say they are non-polluting as those battery packs don't charge themselves...and they can only be a net benefit if the modes they are replacing are more polluting; if they are replacing walking then they are worse for health and the environment!

As a cyclist I always think using anything electric is cheating - if no effort is required then what's the point! 😉

[Bic Basher]

I spotted four Lime bikes dumped outside Court Lane Gate this afternoon.  Two in front of the gates which appeared to be left by Lime and then another two by the right hand side pedestrian entrance. 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

3 hours ago, claresy said:

I don't use them regularly but I know someone who commutes daily on one because it's cheaper than a train. When I do use one I don't find it heavy at all - it's electric so no effort required! It's progressive in terms of being non-polluting, better for the environment and accessible for people who may not want or be able to afford a car - or prefer not to be stuck in a motionless bus indefinitely. Since they closed many roads locally public transport and driving take far longer. On one occasion it took me half an hour to get to Camberwell! 

I do use them regularly and I think they're great...until the scumbag multinationals and fuckwit riders dump them in stupid places. It's not just ugly or inconsiderate, they're dangerous for people with restricted mobility, people with prams, kids, wheelchair users... This isn't just hypothetical - at the risk of repeating myself, last week I personally moved a bike out the way because a geezer couldn't get down the pavement in his wheelchair because of it.

[Bic Basher]

I doubt they're cheaper than a train.   A 60 minute pass on Lime valid for 3 days is £4.99 and HumanForest is £4, valid for 24 hours.

While it's possible to get into Zone 1 within 30 minutes for an experienced rider, it may not always be possible to do it within 30 mins each way.

Where the e-bikes win is on local journeys.   The Grove to Sainsbury's DKH takes me around 8-10 minutes compared to the 15 minutes on a 176 or 185.  Sometimes it can take 25 mins during the school run or on Saturday afternoons when the buses are stuck at the retail end of LL.

The quickest I've riden from Peckham to the Forest Hill end of LL is 12 minutes. (20-25 mins on the 197).

[OutOfFocus]

I have written to one of the Councillors. I stressed the problem for sight impaired and wheelchair users. I suggest others do the same.

[David Peckham]

It seems that Southwark may have to be pretty robust in their dealings with Lime to get a result.

https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/news/news-march-2023/council-continues-to-take-action-on-lime-bikes-blocking-pavements/

 

[malumbu]

Keep the positive comments coming folks.  Appreciate it.

[first mate]

7 hours ago, David Peckham said:

It seems that Southwark may have to be pretty robust in their dealings with Lime to get a result.

https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/news/news-march-2023/council-continues-to-take-action-on-lime-bikes-blocking-pavements/

 

In the last Environment scrutiny session Cllr Rose used a word salad around all this and kept talking about carefully curated dockless use and careful management of provision, but you really got the impression that the council are stumbling into all this, not clear about what they are doing or the consequences.

[Rockets]

Eynella is like a Lime bike graveyard this morning.....

[Humdinger]

I don't see a huge issue even if they do block the odd pavement here and there. Just walk around them, its not hard. From what i gather it's mostly high and mighty mums with a pram or buggy that think they are entitled to a completely clear street at all times and will vehemently complain any time that is not the case, despite living in a built up city. If you see an obstruction, perhaps crossing the road might be an idea. 

[exdulwicher]

2 minutes ago, Humdinger said:

I don't see a huge issue even if they do block the odd pavement here and there. Just walk around them, its not hard. From what i gather it's mostly high and mighty mums with a pram or buggy that think they are entitled to a completely clear street at all times and will vehemently complain any time that is not the case, despite living in a built up city. If you see an obstruction, perhaps crossing the road might be an idea. 

As a regular user of Lime bikes, I think that they, and the scooters, are brilliant but I'll respectfully disagree on your point.

Pavement clutter in general is a total pain for many reasons - this isn't just bikes/scooters but fibre cabinets, advertising boards, electric car charging points and cables all taking ever more space away and making it very difficult for wheelchair users, people with prams/buggies, partially sighted people etc. 

It's definitely not just bikes - in fact I think that as bikes are relatively new on the scene and quite distinctive, it's easier to have a go at them than any of the more established issues and poor vehicle parking is definitely more of a problem but pavement clutter is, quite rightly, a massive issue for many people.

[David Peckham]

Exdulwicher, if I may ask you a question, do you use the Lime bikes around here?

I've seen them used in the north of the borough, particularly in the area south of the South Bank and they appear to work really well there. It seems to be commuters using them to and from the mainline stations during the week and tourists at the weekend. 

I just struggle to see how relevant they are here.

Most people live within a five or ten minute walk of somewhere to pick up a newspaper or a pint of milk.

If people have made the decision to cycle locally, surely they'd have invested in a bike already. Lime bikes aren't particularly cheap to use long term.

An hour's bus ticket is cheaper than a 60 minute Lime pass and more practical if you're picking up shopping or heading into town.

For moving anything bulky or taking the family out, they're not going to replace car journeys.

I genuinely can't see the point of them, in these numbers, around here. They just seem to be the answer to a question nobody's actually asked.

 

 

 

[claresy]

It IS cheaper for my friend to commute on a Lime. She looked into it and wouldn't be doing it otherwise. And you still get exercise on a Lime, just a bit of help going up hills etc! I don't see why Lime bikes are considered more of an eyesore than cars and wheelie bins.  You get the odd one left obstructively, but it doesn't seem like a big issue to me. Cars are increasingly being discouraged with an increase in parking and driving restrictions so perhaps long term there will be fewer and hire bikes (which take up far less space) will not be perceived as such an issue. While Limes aren't cheap, I'm sure they're more economical than buying, maintaining, insuring and parking a car. I do have my own bike, but sometimes I don't want to risk locking and leaving it somewhere, or I'm not feeling very energetic, or I just want to get back home quickly from a local station, in which case Limes are great. There are also many places buses don't serve - my daughter uses one all the time to visit friends - or where parking is impossible. I feel they're a great innovation and will be sad if this killjoy attitude affects them. 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

3 hours ago, Humdinger said:

I don't see a huge issue even if they do block the odd pavement here and there. Just walk around them, its not hard. 

It is if you're in a wheelchair. 🤦

[Humdinger]

40 minutes ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

It is if you're in a wheelchair. 🤦

If you are in a wheelchair (a tiny, tiny fraction of the population) then you already know you have hard luck, a few extra bicycles on the street is hardly going to push you over the edge. Besides they are surprisingly competent at navigating obstacles, which is rarely taken into account. 

Its a stupid argument anyway. Typical NIMBY response to something they dont want or like- "what about the wheelchairs", "what about the schoolkids", "what about this, and what about that". Lets just do absolutely nothing in future in case we inconvenience someone somewhere, yeah? 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Humdinger