LTN Discussion

[SE22_2020er]

Is Rockets a taxi driver? Or do they work for a car manufacturer? 🤣🤣🤣

[Rockets]

Goldilocks - a quick search will tell you that I have posted on a broad variety of subjects on this forum across the 12 years or so so to try and insinuate I only post on this subject is completely false. Yes, I, like a lot of other concerned local residents, have posted a lot on this subject - I don't think you can accuse us of being like our dear departed friends LTN Manatee and BooHoo et al who only became members to attack those who didn't agree with their view of the LTN world.

I am also not sure you can suggest that I am using this to lobby - I am not sure anyone thinks the forum influences local decisions. I think many of us come on here to educate and enlighten people to what is actually going on beyond the "Everything is awesome" narrative we hear from the likes of Clean Air Dulwich.

And of course the beauty of the forum is that allows debate and discussion - if you disagree with something I say you can challenge it (but of course this doesn't often happen as the pro-LTN supporters often don't have a rational argument and default to...well, yeah, but, no, but yeah well, you must be a petrol head....P.S. yes I am looking at you SE22_2020ER...;-)). And of course the likes of Clean Air Dulwich don't want a discussion either as they block comments from anyone they don't already follow thus limiting any form of debate - it's echo chamber activism.

But what they do do is use their social media accounts to lobby local councillors and try to paint a picture to suit their own personal, and often selfish, agenda.

Which brings me back to my earlier point which is that CAD are lobbying the council to bring back a permanent barrier at the Calton/DV junction - which to me seems like a ludicrous and blinkered position to take given the over-whelming evidence from emergency services that such barriers were causing delays to response times and really does highlight the selfishness of some of the pro-LTN lobbyists. The fact they are using old footage to make this point suggests this is a co-ordinated approach to try and influence the council's decision-making process.

Don't you agree that the bottom line is that what they are lobbying for will delay emergency vehicle response times and put lives at risk?

And, for the record, I am neither a taxi driver nor do I work for the car industry - I am, like you, a local resident who lives on a road benefitting from the LTNs but the difference is I just don't believe they are fair or equitable to everyone across the Dulwich area and for me to benefit someone has to suffer. And that's not at all right.

[redpost]

Cyclists do barrel through the LTN, even the "nice" lady ones with silver helmets and all manner of day-glo sashes and cute kiddies on board. Very selfish but likely from a feeling of eco-powered entitlement that itself is fed by the anti-vehicle set up there.

 

Yes, how dare they ride a bike, how dare they not pollute, how dare they not risk pedestrians lives by speeding around in a 2t lump of metal

[Spartacus]

Cyclists do barrel through the LTN, even the "nice" lady ones with silver helmets and all manner of day-glo sashes and cute kiddies on board. Very selfish but likely from a feeling of eco-powered entitlement that itself is fed by the anti-vehicle set up there.

 

Yes, how dare they ride a bike, how dare they not pollute, how dare they not risk pedestrians lives by speeding around in a 2t lump of metal

 

I think the point is, Redpost, that cyclists at the square can be equally as dangerous

[goldilocks]

Yes cyclists can be dangerous if they pass through the square quickly. Most don't - some do. The design was better before as the planters naturally slowed those coming down Calton. Now there is nothing to slow people coming down if they don't think they ought to.

Even speeding cyclists aren't as dangerous as speeding cars, but lets face it, I'd rather not be hit by either!

There's also a perception point, most people overestimate cyclist speed - especially where its road bikes with the whirring noise they make.

[first mate]

Well, I had a very close shave this morning on Lordship Lane as cyclist barrelled through a red light/ crossing just as I was crossing on foot. He would have seen me but decided to go through the red light anyhow.

Had he hit me it would've been nasty.

Increasingly, I am finding that many cyclists do not stop at crossings to give way to pedestrians and many ride through red lights without a backward glance.

[Rockets]

Paul Lomax hits the nail on the head here about much of the "evidence" of success touted by activist research groups

...a wonderful circle of self-validation by self-interest groups....

[Spartacus]

Paul Lomax hits the nail on the head here about much of the "evidence" of success touted by activist research groups

...a wonderful circle of self-validation by self-interest groups....

 

It happens a lot over various things

Sadly fact and fiction often combine but then people cross the two over and fiction becomes fact in echo Chambers everywhere.

Learning to listen to or read the facts and making an informed decision is a skill worth learning regardless of the subject rather then taking what someone says or writes as gospel.

[Rockets]

On the DV junction the cause of the problem is that the council designed the junction with only cyclists in mind and didn't give equal weighting to other users - it's clear zero consideration was given as to how pedestrians would use the space. Now they have had to try to retrofit it to allow emergency services access it has become even more of a mess and they need to tear it all up and start again giving equal weighting to all users of the space and create a junction that is safe for all.

Isn't there supposed to be some sort of local community-led group helping design the new junction - does anyone know who that is or how people can become involved or is it a closed-shop for pro-LTN lobbyists only?

[heartblock]

Isn’t the LCC designing it? 😳

The appropriate thought and investment into a proper redesign that favours pedestrians, who are the most vulnerable, is not going to happen...it will be ‘designed’ by those who have the ear of the council, and live in a gated rd on the cheap.

In any case, hopefully not using the person who designed the terrible EDG, Townley Rd, Greendale junction.

[legalalien]

Hi all

Thought many of you might be interested in the new batch of minor/ non strategic traffic notices

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?Id=7684&LLL=0

They cover a wide range of local streets, things like extension of DYL to improve visibility/ stop entrance ways being blocked, the DYL and “blips” in Court and Calton, removal of disabled parking bays where the residents whose presence initially justified them are no longer there - and interestingly a few (I didn’t read them all) where residents are installing dropped kerbs and as a result applying to have the CPZ parking spot outside their property removed. Not sure whether that trend is to avoid having a parking permit, or possibly more likely to enable them to install an electric charger off street. I think someone flagged earlier the risk that people would start paving their front gardens as an unintended consequence of a switch to electric?

[Spartacus]

BBC News - ULEZ expanded zone has had limited impact so far, TfL report says

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62224609

Interesting reading and almost supports not expanding the ULEZ

[Metallic]

The glut of people walking about in yellow high viz taking numberplates of legally parked cars made me wonder if Southwark are going to match the plates with DVLA details which they clearly have access to. Then leading to parking restrictions of some kind on these roads where the checkers have been seen.

[Spartacus]

The glut of people walking about in yellow high viz taking numberplates of legally parked cars made me wonder if Southwark are going to match the plates with DVLA details which they clearly have access to. Then leading to parking restrictions of some kind on these roads where the checkers have been seen.

 

I think, that if your assumption is correct, then it's a clear breech of GDPR rules as the council have not got a legal reason to do so (legal reasons include enforcing parking infringements, moving traffic violation ...)

Just seeing where a car owner lives without a legal reason could get them into hot water.

I wonder if there's a different reason, for example checking MOT and TAX status?

[Metallic]

The glut of people walking about in yellow high viz taking numberplates of legally parked cars made me wonder if Southwark are going to match the plates with DVLA details which they clearly have access to. Then leading to parking restrictions of some kind on these roads where the checkers have been seen.

 

What has that to do with Southwark? Nothing!

[Metallic]

Sorry I haven't got the hang of this yet - I was trying to reply to Spartacus!

[Rockets]

Interesting to read that TFL have admitted that the LTNs in Dulwich are the reason for the increased congestion on Croxted Road, this despite the repeated claims by local Village councillors that it had nothing to do with the LTNs.....displacement and increased congestion is an irrefutable fact associated with all LTNs despite what their fans would like to claim...

[Spartacus]

Sorry I haven't got the hang of this yet - I was trying to reply to Spartacus!

 

Possibly devolved powers from the DVLA

https://insidedvla.blog.gov.uk/2021/06/29/dvla-working-with-local-authorities-and-police-services-to-take-action-on-unlicensed-vehicles/

But it's my speculation over what they could be doing as just checking where a car owner lives is potentially a misuse of their contract with the DVLA unless they are seeking enforcement action against the car and driver

It's the same principle why police can't randomly search their database for friends or family without just cause.

[ab29]

Croxted and Norwood Road congestion caused by LTN says TfL report

https://southwarknews.co.uk/featured/croxted-and-norwood-road-congestion-caused-by-ltn-says-tfl-report/?fbclid=IwAR1HHYp57FxEEUPGraXnL15IpIG36Tpoo5bWWzJ6OV3C34YYOHp-skDjMh4

[Bic Basher]

I await the spin.

[heartblock]

It’s all in TFLs imagination...bunch of anti-green, motor-head, climate denying yobs!

[Rockets]

The council, and councillors, have, from day one, known what the negative impact of the LTNs has been on surrounding areas yet have chosen to ignore it and actively try to demonise anyone who dared to challenge them on the realities. It is clear they have been fudging and trying to bury the truth in their LTN reports which amounted to no more than pro-LTN propoganda.

We kept hearing, from the likes of Aldred and co that this wasn't happening/didn't happen with LTNs but now the truth is slowly emerging. It's time for some of the councillors to come clean and acknowledge the damage their LTNs are doing. It's time for them to stop lying.

[Bic Basher]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a climate denier or anything like that. Monday and Tuesday this week is a big wake up call for action on net-zero, but I've never been convinced that closing leafy back streets is the way to reduce emissions.

I walked along LL by The Grove for the last two days during evening rush hour and all I could smell were petrol emissions from cars queuing up to turn onto Dulwich Common.

Cyclists love LTNs because it gives them the car-free utopia they've been campaigning for decades for and they've been getting upset over the decision of Tower Hamlets where Mayor Rahman who is far from being a Tory (he's a Corbynite socialist) who campaigned on a anti-LTN ticket won the May election promising to remove the closures and cycle lanes for car access again.

[first mate]

Problem is the whole LTN model is partly based on a number of major assumptions the first being that most people will be able to cycle or take public transport to work, ignoring the fact that our infrastructure is not designed for this to happen. And now it seems public transport services are being cut.

Another assumption is that if enough punitive measures and blocks are imposed people will stop using their cars. Surely the evidence is reasonably clear that this will not happen any time soon. Even less likely in winter, with street crime and Covid on the rise.

Then there is the misguided notion that LTNs will reduce pollution. If approximately the same volume of cars is being squeezed onto more limited routes, that does not equal less overall pollution. Air moves too.

The elections in May were not a mandate for Southwark Labour to continue on its merry way, I believe that result was a strong message to Boris and the Tories.

If we truly want to tackle climate change there needs to be some really imaginative and subtle thinking. Not schoolchild activism or easy copycat application of measures that may have worked in a totally different context and location.

[heartblock]

It was never about reducing pollution, it was always about closing roads for certain people who have been lobbying the Council for years to close their road. One only has to go back to some pre-Covid forum pages to see posts from those living in closed now. They closed roads due to Covid and then kept them closed while scrabbling around for ‘evidence’ ...it’s placating certain residents who are wish-washy voters for Labour, they know the poorer and high ethnic population roads (main roads with cheaper housing) are very likely to always vote labour. It’s quite disgusting , greenwashing and only caring about gaining votes. That actual Councillors live in LTNs is an additional repulsive aspect of this ‘policy’. Meanwhile building on green spaces in the poorest areas with high traffic, allowing trees just planted to die through lack of care, selling off our park space for profit and providing less than a tenth of the original number of social housing on the Heygate redevelopment. It’s not a Council for the most in need, it’s a career building project for some very vainglorious individuals. There are a few Councillors I respect..including some of the newer ones, but I wonder how long it will take for their ethics and morals to be eroded. LTNs - a vanity project for the privileged few.