Eating on Benefits

[Asset]

Although the original experiment I believe came from a discussion about whether is is possible to eat well on a limited budget and not resort to cheap, processed, convenience foods. I think MM's menu looked interesting and nutritious and mostly all made from fresh ingredients. And for ?20 not bad at all. A little meaty for me though and as a veggie it gets harder to keep the food interesting - there's only so much spicy slop one can eat in a week.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I don't think he came over arrogant or unaffected by his experience. He admits that it wasn't a true reflection of what long term poverty would be like but said he has slightly more understanding of how hard it might be than he had before.

I think if everyone who does have a high income tried it even for a week, it won't give them a real insight but it might bring them a bit closer to understanding how it is for other people and that can't be a bad thing.

Give him a break.

[SeanMacGabhann]

* hugs Chav *

[macroban]

Next a World War Two experiment at the lowest point of food rationing?

[Asset]

mmmm, powdered egg anyone?

[clive3300]

I lived for a while unemployed and not able to get any kind of benefit (being an immigrant). I had to do the rounds at friends' sharehouses and my hot meals were stir-in dolmio on no name pasta; Cold meals were bread and chutney. This way I could eat for about ?1-?1.50 a day, but lost about 15kg (2 stone).

In the end I got some horrendous commision-only "job" selling pots and pans to ghanian/nigerian women, before things up-ticked a bit. A rough few months.

[Marmora Man]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I ducked the EDF drinks thru' pressure of workbut it meant I stuck to budget / plan.

> But MM did have a social life - he attended the

> Forum Drinks, benefits budget suspended for the

> duration.

[Marmora Man]

having read some responses I'll add:

1. Thanks Chav.

2. It was an unreal simulation I'd acknowledge that - I'm in work, well paid and life at home was comfortable, warm and stress free. I didn't detail every drink of water, tea or coffee - many taken in the office. should have added the half bottle of lime squash to costs.

3. It tested me - and I was not worrying about finding work, money or unexpected problems that would blow my budget out of the water. On that basis it gave me an insight.

4. In response to Sean's question about how how can people escape the poverty / benefits trap - my experiment provides no simple answer. being the libertarian I am I would advocate a much simpler tax & benefits structure with much higher thresholds - anyone earning less than 12,000pa should not be taxed and if they have a partner & children to support so the threshold should rise further. I believe such a move could be part, but only part, funded by bureaucratic savings. the balance would have to come from reduced gov't expenditure elsewhere - something you all know I'd be strongly in favour of, or higher tax rates on better paid - something I'm les enthusiastic about.

[Cassius]

Well people over about 36 - 40K (?) per annum are taxed at the same levels as those on thousands per week - not advocating the old 'squeeze the rich until the pips squeak' but maybe a higher rate of 50% on earnings over ?100k per annum would help benefit those on less.

[clive3300]

Statistically, not really enough people make more than 100k that much higher than 40% would make any difference to overall receipts.

I do agree that the highest brackets should kick in a lot higher than they do. 40% kicking in at 36k is rough.

But for that to fly, that lost revenue (and it will be a shedlot) will have to be made up somewhere else, or else government spending must be cut signficantly.

[Huguenot]

Global economy etc.

People in the top tax bracket are more than capable of negotiating their salary based on net income. If you up the tax then that's either a tax on the business who pays them, or they just bugger off to Singapore. ;-)

I can't even remember the proportion of the UK's business that's based on financial services that have no geographical tie. If you increase the burden on the businesses then they bugger off too, and you end up with a country based on excessive charges for Maslow's hierarchy.

Clive, you're on the button, but it's circular - reductions in government spending is what MM seeks.

MM you're an idealist, but you're realistically proposing a benevolent tyranny. We won't have a keen market of competitive service providers, we'll have cost-efficient behemoths that fu@k everyone. Business isn't full of sages, it's full of small minded megalomaniacs, it's only the administration that keeps them benign.

As part of that dynamic equilibrium it's a fantastic contribution, but we should think carefully before making it a mantra. Organised religion has many failings, but at least it recognises that we're all inherently evil. The free market fosters tribalism and the abdication of social responsibility, not engagement and long term thinking.

Quangos are cool, because they're not populated by Mandelson and Campbell but by teachers and small minded leather-elbowed social workers. They keep checks on business types like me.

In that three year period after university when I earned less than my outgoings before food I was desperate, it was a mind wrenching, twisting experience that left me bundled with hatred. You can't mess with that, it's not a numbers game. We'll still be bleating free market economics when the mobs burn down our houses and slaughter our children. Whilst I applaud Thatcher for the compromised unions, I curse her for the dimunition of the family unit and the reduction of the social bloc.

The twenty quid week is Tim Nice But Dim. It's not about an effing price. We're plonkers if we think that. It's about disenfranchisement, social dislocation, envy and rage.

Low earners don't hate wealth because they want a thirty quid Stilton, but because they despise the arrogance and ignorance of those who would buy it. Low earners have to put weekly savings into a 'business' Christmas Club that buggers off with all the sodding money a month before the date. Market forces? Thieves.

Snot-nosed schoolboys won't end up with a debating club merit point, they'll wander lonely in a world with litter-strewn streets and neighborhood cages.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Damn - someone hacked into Huguenot's account and wrote something I'd be proud of!