(moving on from) this great new website...

[Guest]

[Moderator says] - I have split this discussion away from the original posting as it moves away from the original topic which was actually an announcement

Re: Bar Poll

I've noticed that an announcement has appeared on the poll page alluding to cheating in the voting. If this is the case the results will not be credible and quite worthless.

[Mark]

Fortunately it's not the case, the cheating was spotted and the false votes swiftly removed. As a safeguard against further deliberate attempts of vote fixing we have now introduced 'registered user' only voting.

[Keith]

It was me. I own up. I wanted to see if it was a credible voting system on the site and am glad at least it is. I drink in The Vale so voted for my local. I hope I haven't upset things to much and I'm sure this has at least help to secure the voting process. NO harm intended and hope you forgive me for my brash attempt to secure a respectful result for my lovely local that deserves more than the 4% it had at the time I cheated.>:D

[Mark]

Keith

I commend your honesty and I'm glad that our voting credibility stands up to your expert security opinion. Yes it did show a flaw in our system so thank you for bringing it to our attention. No harm done, although you had us worried for a while that we may have had to reset the whole poll but it came good in the end. You are forgiven and thanks for using the forum.

Mark

[Quaywe]

Any good security expert would know that you would NEVER break something just to prove that it can be broken. There are other ways to prove that something has a weakness without actually exploiting that weakness. What Keith has done is unethical and I'm sure he did it only to increase the votes of his local, the Vale (which is overpriced, stale and rubbish IMO). I'd bet he wouldn't have owned up had the fraud not been detected, and would have happily seen the Vale falsely awarded best pub in ED. Owning up was probably just an attempt at saving grace as his actions probably could have been traced back to him anyway.

[Keith]

Quaywe,

Hey you don't even know me but make such bold statements about my actions and views without anything to go on.I call that nieve. I am actually in the security business and the only way to find a weakness is to exploit it, it's human nature to do so and the best way (in my opinion) to find fault. It's how humans progressed though time to become more adaptable and intelligent. It's how we survive. As for cheating, it's not my normal behaviour but I did explain I LIKE The Vale even if you don't and explained my actions already.

I hope this is more to your satisfaction and if not my Father has a great salute "Here's to those who wish us well, to those who don't F**k them".

[Quaywe]

I don't need to know you in order to know that if you are in security, you are a junior that has a lot to learn. The fact that you say you'd need to exploit it shows me that if you really are in the security business then I fear for your customers safety.

If someone has accidentally left their front door open you wouldn't need to go into their house and steal everything in it to be able to point out to the owner of the house that they've got a security issue. You could just knock on the door and tell them that their front door is open and should be locked.

I know I certainly wouldn't want any security expert telling me "guess what, I hacked into your system and stole all of your money" just to prove to me that all my money could be stolen.

If penetration testers (a common internet based security test for you juniors) followed your "break it to prove it can be broken" methodology they would be out of business. If you really ARE in security then you would have known that. Your attitude only suggests to me that if you really DO have anything to do with security, it's to do with breaking it (or CRACKING - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_%28computing%29)!

Good luck at convincing me or anyone that you're nothing more than a black hat junior that thinks exploiting weaknesses in honest peoples web sites and telling them about it (only once the weakness has been detected) is a good thing.

[Guest]

Quaywe,

Just calm the hell down and stop ranting. It was just a poll for goodness sake.

Jees...

[Quaywe]

The same technique's can be used to manipulate many other sites including one's you probably shop on with your credit card so it's probably not "just a poll".

[Guest]

He didn't say he was in internet security. There is a life beyond the web.

He's done a bad thing but doesn't make him a bad man. Let's not scare people off this nascent forum. I say if he's willing to come clean then he's welcome here. (But if he does it again he can sling his hook!)

[Keith]

I don't deal with internet security but with public sector - private sector - commercial - retail businesses and some of the countries largest instatutions which I will not metion due to privacy and for security reasons. I am also not a junior in this industry but have been working over 12yrs doing this. I tried to explain in my post that I cheated to find a weakness as I had noticed other businesses had tried to advertise themselves by posting comments about their businesses as flattery and wondered if the pole was being manipulated in the same fashion.

Q, I would just drop the subject unless you feel you need to attack my actions some more, but trust me that it only amuses me to find that one person is so uptight about this subject. I might think you have had an experience that has left you scared in some way, that you might find what I did upsetting because of some invading you in some way and it might be good for you to get it out into the open by speaking to someone who cares for you.

Just joking :))

[Quaywe]

You're starting to bore me now Keith, the damage has been done. Learn from it and move on.

[Keith]

You started this rant Q so if you also want to stop it that's fine also. Hope to speak to you again some time.

Regards Keith.:))

[Morag]

He who builds to every mans advice, will have a crooked house.

[HonaloochieB]

And she that resurrects a two and half year old thread is possibly, nay surely nuts.

[HonaloochieB]

Oh arse, the ground has just fallen before my feet.

Morag, you little blighter, you got me good and proper.

[lenk]

awesome thread guys

[LibraCarr]

Hi,

I was interested to note that the Vale got 4% of votes and that a flaw occured in the voting. Does that mean it may have been voted for higher than 4% or lower?

Regards,

Libra Carr.

[woofmarkthedog]

Quaywe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't need to know you in order to know that if

> you are in security, you are a junior that has a

> lot to learn. The fact that you say you'd need to

> exploit it shows me that if you really are in the

> security business then I fear for your customers

> safety.

>

> If someone has accidentally left their front door

> open you wouldn't need to go into their house and

> steal everything in it to be able to point out to

> the owner of the house that they've got a security

> issue. You could just knock on the door and tell

> them that their front door is open and should be

> locked.

>

> I know I certainly wouldn't want any security

> expert telling me "guess what, I hacked into your

> system and stole all of your money" just to prove

> to me that all my money could be stolen.

>

> If penetration testers (a common internet based

> security test for you juniors) followed your

> "break it to prove it can be broken" methodology

> they would be out of business. If you really ARE

> in security then you would have known that. Your

> attitude only suggests to me that if you really DO

> have anything to do with security, it's to do with

> breaking it (or CRACKING -

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_%28computing%

> 29)!

>

> Good luck at convincing me or anyone that you're

> nothing more than a black hat junior that thinks

> exploiting weaknesses in honest peoples web sites

> and telling them about it (only once the weakness

> has been detected) is a good thing.

..........................................................................

Feel better now ,good. Do you know "the beard" p'chance

W**F